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Post by Variaz on Apr 29, 2011 8:48:39 GMT -5
You do realise that making it CR2 would make it HARDER, right? Double hp, +25% to all stats.... But if you insist...  In any cases, I hadn't had any problems with Shaugma with my own build. It was a pretty straightforward build too: Stealthy Fighter + Thievery. I don't remember which level I was, but it wasn't above 20 I'm sure. And I personally liked Thievery a lot. The key to using Thievery is to....use it. Often. A good idea is to use it to steal a dagger, or even better, a Main Gauche. This way, the dagger will get +1d1 damage, which is significant for a small weapon like a dagger. This will result in multiple attacks per rounds with a fairly powerful weapon for it's weight. And with the Main Gauche, you also gain parrying, providing a chance to block which helps surviving a bit longer. This may requires you to spend a bit more time in the dungeons before doing the quests. Try to steal from elites/bosses every time you fight them, and try to get multiple pieces of gear. This way, you'll get high +to_h and +to_d, and extra tweak points to spend. Always apply the tweak points to the items you don't use, so that you can sell them for a good amount(at Thievery 10, apply the Eternal ability!). You can steal ANYTHING, and it will have tweak points. Just stole a worthless bronze dagger? Make it Eternal, and sell if for a few thousands. Use the extra gold to buy items in the black market(rings of constitution are very good) or scrolls at the rare items shop(also consider the ring of lordly protection for extra AC...it's expensive, but worth it). Reselling stolen loot to get stuff in the black market is a perfectly rogueish behavior, so don't be ashamed to do it!  |
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Post by Gando on Apr 29, 2011 11:10:28 GMT -5
You do realize I was saying that it was not actually a CR 1 but a CR2 even though it says CR1...maybe a bit too hyperbolic but my point is combat got a lot harder for Rogues in this version.
Stole lots of stuff at 10 ap + and got very little usable equipment...lots of sellable stuff. But since it is a chore to spend all those points I ended up iding lots of stuff first which added to time spent not playing etc until the whole thing became a bit of a drag. So I got bored and wanted to do a Quest. Something that was quite doable by any reasonable class combination pre .5 alpha.
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Post by Variaz on Apr 29, 2011 11:36:05 GMT -5
You do realize I was saying that it was not actually a CR 1 but a CR2 even though it says CR1... I know what you meant. I was just kidding about making it CR2 for real!  |
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Post by Gando on Apr 29, 2011 14:02:59 GMT -5
Haha, don't joke like that! Actually no I take it back...I am actually ok with Bosses being CR2 ...kind of makes sense in a way. Particularly if they give exp. BUT you need to do something about that Water/Dark ball casting. She kills her minions every time. Almost no point in their existence except as a mild distraction.
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Post by Gando on Apr 29, 2011 14:06:01 GMT -5
Oh as far as the stolen weapon stats go...I ended up using Aria's Shortsword since it is far better statwise than what I can get from stealing daggers even at 14 thievery.
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Post by Variaz on Apr 29, 2011 15:57:29 GMT -5
Oh as far as the stolen weapon stats go...I ended up using Aria's Shortsword since it is far better statwise than what I can get from stealing daggers even at 14 thievery. Actually, so did I. It's a great weapon for rogues, thanks to it's effectiveness on undeads. At level 30, my build was: Stealthy Fighter - 10 Thievery - 10 Sneak Attack - 10 With my current speed and stealth, enemies not immune to paralysis usually loses their first turn to stun using Sneak Attack, and can be killed in the second turn. Most monsters immune to paralysis are undeads, and Aria's Light does twice the damage against them thanks to it's Light element, so that solved the undead problems. It ended up being my main weapon, and was good enough to take care of level 40 Unholy Champions. It's very good, and will last until you can start stealing mithril weapons at dungeon level 40. Even then, it's still good thanks to Light element. |
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Post by Gando on May 1, 2011 5:15:22 GMT -5
Seems like the Restless Monk got 3-4x harder as well. I remember being able to fight this guy at level 8-9 in 4.0 or so, but now at level 14 he's got way too many hit points (11k) and hits too hard (1k-6k per attack sequence). If you adjust the combat system you need to tweak the bosses too or it is just meaningless. Not sure how many levels it will take before I can beat him...probably need a full suit of xp items.
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Post by Variaz on May 1, 2011 13:57:33 GMT -5
6k?? I don't think this is even possible.
At level 15, he should have a strength of 67, with all bonus taken into account. His melee damage should be 4d8. Therefore, even on a max roll, the most damage he should do is 1984, and that's on a max roll. An average roll would be about 18, so about 1116 per hits.
He should also have two attacks per rounds. So on a very lucky roll, against a player with 0 AC who don't block, the maximum damage he CAN do is 3986, and that's pretty unrealistic. There's no way you'd have 0 AC, and two max rolls in a row is highly unlikely(monsters don't have a chance of max roll, unlike players).
I can think of a few things that may be the problem:
- Not enough speed. So the monster gets an extra turn against you.
- Not enough AC. His attack skill should be the same as his strength, 67. If you have an AC of at least 67, it should be enough to cut half his damage. This isn't hard to get, even for a Rogue(I assume you play a Rogue).
- Not enough hp. Don't neglect Constitution. Ever.
Other things that can help:
- Buy a ring of constitution at the black market(with thievery, it's easy to get enough money to buy one).
- Get a shield for blocking. Or a Main Gauche with parry.
- Get some to_h and to_d. Again, with Thievery, not difficult to get.
I do not think this monster is unbeatable for a character around his level. At level 8-9, it's indeed a bit low. You should be closer to his level. But I don't think he's impossible for a level 14-15 character, far from it. He is meant to be a little harder, as it's a boss. The only thing may be his hp, it may be a little high, but I don't think it's impossible to beat him.
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Post by Gando on May 1, 2011 15:33:02 GMT -5
He is too hard for my rogue at 14. My rogue has just a bit more than 6k hp and he almost died before getting back up the stairs. I think I got in one shot for a 100hp before realizing I was outclassed and outgunned. As I said, this mob was a challenge at level 8 in the old version but doable given enough con + damage.
Though granted I never tried it with a pure rogue. I did manage it with a Soul Watchamacallit on more than one occasion. Granted that was a totally different game because everything was out of wack, but now I don't expect to be able to deal with him for another 10-12 levels regardless of what gear I am wearing and the items I am finding are +5 con each because of points. Haven't invested tweak points into anything else on the gear I am wearing.
My AC is a bit low (about 20 give or take) but that is partially because I haven't found anything decent. By the way, do you find a lot of Rings of Constitution in the Black Market? It seems to be a nonexistent item as far as I can tell.
I am wearing the water wall, have been since level 4 or so. Thievery is at 10 so whatever I am wearing has the bonuses of that. granted the gear Ive stolen has some pretty poor native bonuses (often with none at all) but that's the way the RNG shows me love.
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Post by Variaz on May 1, 2011 21:02:00 GMT -5
I do come up often with a ring of constitution in the black market. You may have to scum a bit for it, but it isn't that rare.
Can you dump your character, and post your build?
EDIT: Oh, and can you also confirm that he is indeed level 15? I've checked the files, and while in the quest he's supposed to be level 15, the r_info has it set to 20, so I am not sure which one it is. 5 levels could be enough to make a difference.
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Post by Variaz on May 1, 2011 22:35:35 GMT -5
For the record, I just went there with my level 20 dwarf, and was able to kill him fairly easily. Granted, it's a Warrior, not a Rogue, and I was 5 levels higher too. Still, I was only wearing three purples(and they aren't that great), no rings of constitution or other stats, and overall pretty ordinary stuff. Beating him at level 15 would probably have been possible with a ring of constitution or some more purples.
I'll have to roll another Rogue some time, and try to beat him at level 14-15, and see how I fare.
EDIT: Wow, these gauntlets are really underpowered in this release. +3 str/dex is nothing. I'll have to increase those bonus...
EDIT2: Done. Now they will give +10 str, +10 wis and +20 Martial Arts. Suits the monk theme more, and will make the gauntlets worth using.
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Post by Variaz on May 1, 2011 23:35:54 GMT -5
By the way, do you find a lot of Rings of Constitution in the Black Market? It seems to be a nonexistent item as far as I can tell. I have now decided to add the stats rings to the Rare Items Shop. This way, less scumming will be needed, and since they are rather important items to have(they really give a huge boost to your character in one stat that you need), it makes sense to have them more available. |
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Post by Gando on May 2, 2011 4:25:28 GMT -5
I do come up often with a ring of constitution in the black market. You may have to scum a bit for it, but it isn't that rare. Can you dump your character, and post your build? EDIT: Oh, and can you also confirm that he is indeed level 15? I've checked the files, and while in the quest he's supposed to be level 15, the r_info has it set to 20, so I am not sure which one it is. 5 levels could be enough to make a difference. Sorry, ended up deleting in frustration again. I am not sure what level the restless monk is but on my next character if I make it to level 20 without deleting I will let you know. |
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Post by Gando on May 2, 2011 17:51:26 GMT -5
On my current Rogue I found a Kobold Castle (Vault) on level 9 or so of a dungeon and was able to go up about 7 levels and steal a ton of eternalized items through some careful play. I finally gave up and ran home with a full bag after facing the boss kobold champion for a round or two...I wanted to steal the King's Steel xp Flail but failed too often and fled before he could mince me. This type of vault might be a bit overpowered or have too low a level flag as the Elites were about 5 levels higher than me and the champions more like 10-12.
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Post by Gando on May 2, 2011 18:34:10 GMT -5
Same character gets to the bottom (level 17) of the dungeon he is in and meets the boss who has 38k hp and hits for 90% of my rogue's hp. Needless to say since I save before entering the last levels to avoid crashes I save scummed out of there. I should note I did about 3k to him so I guess if I had about 50k more hp Id be ok bashing him to death with my Iron Rapier...As it is though, Random Quest Level Bosses seem to be insanely hard. The funny thing is the last dungeon before that I reached the bottom of the boss was eminently beatable since I was only level 4 or so. I guess that's what I get for leveling up?
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