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Post by Gando on Oct 16, 2008 13:32:07 GMT -5
So far its a dud at level 15.
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Post by Variaz on Oct 16, 2008 14:29:43 GMT -5
You didn't evolve, right?
Also, are you actually placing stats points in one of the four stats? If you don't, you won't notice any differences with just essences and items. Also keep in mind that it doesn't boost constitution and charisma.
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Post by Gando on Oct 16, 2008 15:27:46 GMT -5
I did evolve once from viper to python but thats only a 1 depth difference...it should still be good. Also you get stat gains from leveling so I haven't increased the stats naturally...if I have spend points on a stat to get any benefit from the ability points the ability is worthless.
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Post by Variaz on Oct 16, 2008 15:29:50 GMT -5
For having played a small monster with 10 points in this ability, I completely disagree with this statement.
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Post by Gando on Oct 16, 2008 15:42:54 GMT -5
Well be that as it may I put 10 points into it and got bupkiss...if the prequisite for spending points on an ability is spending a ton of points on a stat what is the point in investing in the ability? seems like it would be smarter to spend the points on a better ability.
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Post by Variaz on Oct 16, 2008 15:49:03 GMT -5
It depends on the monster. The one I played was a humanoid one(well, a naga that has a single essence in place of boots), which plays differently than essence-based monsters. Essence monsters gets high strength bonus from essences, so perhaps the benefits are less apparent for them. But for a humanoid who has access to levelables, it allowed me to get high stats while using blues to get high skills. Turned out to be quite effective.
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Post by Gando on Oct 16, 2008 16:20:40 GMT -5
This leads to the need to be able to reset abilities that are completely wasted. :/
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Post by Variaz on Oct 16, 2008 17:48:49 GMT -5
This leads to the need to be able to reset abilities that are completely wasted. :/ I don't think you've wasted any points. If you've only raised constitution up to now(which I assume you did, since you didn't raise any of the other stats), I think you'll have enough for a while. At level 20 with 10 points in Small but Deadly, a Python will gain +3 for a stat for every points you place in it, and it will only get better as your level increases. And as your base stats rise, you'll start gaining more stats per levels. Surely you could place some points into dexterity for more accuracy and counter bypassing, or some strength for extra power. I don't think you need that much constitution, and I certainly don't think you have to reset the abilities because this one is not a waste at all.
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Post by Gando on Oct 16, 2008 18:50:09 GMT -5
I guess we will have to disagree. Since its my character I've deleted it and now know better.
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Post by espeorb on Oct 16, 2008 19:00:42 GMT -5
Constitution is moot when it comes to having a low AC value. Blerrrgh. I would prefer to have randart armors and such than constantly worrying about obsolete essences, thus I stick to playing a Paladin (monster).
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Post by Variaz on Oct 16, 2008 20:33:51 GMT -5
All right, applied the suggested changes, I will now test it to see if it's good or not. Basically, you'll now get a lot less blows from the skill to make up for the high base stats, and damages have been lessened a bit as well. On the other hand, you can now use elemental attacks as regular attacks, and if combined with Inner Elementa Energy, you'll actually get quite a good amount of damages! Still less blows though, which was my main concern. I will now try it out. However, to see how viable it really is, I'm not going to play a small monster nor a powerful dragon or anything. I'll try one of those "middle" monsters, and see if it can make it. If it can, then it means the system is good. Now let's see... hmm..Giant Salamander seems like a good candidate for trying out the new system. I'll try it out, and let you guys know how it turns out!
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Post by Frumple on Oct 16, 2008 20:35:27 GMT -5
I'm having a lot of luck with a con-focused essence monster, at the mo'. My 27th level G critter (Currently a Phantom Necromancer. Shoulda' went with the melee choice, but I think I can turn into a ghost of royalty in about 3 levels...) is consistantly cleaning out random dungeons several levels deeper than its chara' level. The trick for me has been to boost basically just con (332k hp @ level 27...) with my stat points, rely on essences for other stats (Everything except Cha (at 10) is over 100.), boost M.Def and Agility to silly levels (110 and 80 respectively, at the mo'. My AC's at 13k, which I guess is good?), and get the half-damage Paragon ability. Mix all that with the Ghost family's freakish resists and 'tank' barely describes it.
I've actually thrown myself into the middle of light hound/imp hordes without taking much (if any) damage -- most of the time, the enemies can't even damage me faster than I regen HP. Even if something hits me, not much does any damage worth noting. It helps that this is a pretty focused chara', though. Only thing it really needs to M.Arts, Agility, and M.Def, though I've dabbled a bit in spellcraft and essence activations (0 recharge Light Ball from a dungeon boss has really helped versus other 'G's.) for chaff killing and such.
Going to be interesting when I hit the 40s, dungeon level wise... looking forward too it, heh. Right now, the 30s are kind of a cakewalk...
Gonna' have to give a summoner a try soon, though. All these essences are wicked for spamming critters...
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Post by zekk on Oct 16, 2008 20:57:31 GMT -5
So what happens for monsters that don't have melee attacks? like, say, a mirror ball?
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Post by Frumple on Oct 16, 2008 21:23:17 GMT -5
They get martial arts... just like all the other monsters. It's pretty violent.
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Post by Variaz on Oct 16, 2008 21:27:16 GMT -5
In the modified system, if you don't have any attacks, the base damages is 1. Meaning you can't really do much in melee. However, very few monsters don't have natural attacks. I made it so that it ignores whether or not the attack you choose is melee or ranged, so as long as you have any attacks, you can use it. Only very, very few monsters don't have one, and in them are many humanoids that can use weapons anyway. The Mirror Ball is the exception(even Glowing, Cryo and Mysterious spheres get an attack!). Obviously, melee isn't a very effective mean of defense for them. But Spheres were never meant to be melee fighters anyway. The Sphere's speciality is an Essence Caster. And that goes very well with what the Glowing Spheres and Mysterious Spheres are supposed to be. And with the kind of mind stats they have, it would be a waste to not make them casters. They are meant to be magic users with 75% guaranteed block magic. As for the Mirror Ball, it is very weak, but you'll be able to do fine anyway with Essence Casting until level 20 where you'll turn into a Glowing Sphere and get a NICE mind stat. Or, boost your Defense/Agility/Magic Defense, and become a reflect character and let enemies kill themselves! ;D For abilities, pick the returning abilities of Paragon, which are also cummulative with the Mirror Ball's counter. If you don't want to raise any casting abilities and really WANT a pure melee sphere, use some essences to give you the boost to your spellcasting skills and stats and use that until level 20, then evolve into Glowing/Cryo sphere and you'll get an attack. Just know that it isn't what they are supposed to be, so of course it'll be more difficult. But that should be feasable.
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