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Post by Variaz on May 14, 2009 8:47:54 GMT -5
Most vaults ends up with a "miniboss" enemy that can be up to 20 depth levels higher. So you could have met a depth 36 enemy there. Be glad it wasn't a Mature Dragon! Such is the enemy you need to defeat to get a free blue staff or rod with an enchantment equal to the current depth level you're in. Though again, it's a matter of luck. Sometimes, this enemy is just as weak as the other ones.
As for the Bard, I'm surprised that it's not working at all for you. The healing song should work. Rotekian, can you tell us how you made your healing song? We can compare what Gando did versus what you did.
That said, the class probably has flaws. It's a new class with an entirely new system which has had little testing. I'll try to play a pure Bard myself, and see if I have any better luck, and if so, I'll post the build in the strategy section.
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Post by rotekian on May 14, 2009 9:59:03 GMT -5
I created a Power 1 Heal Other Bolt. From that I used Create Song to create an Effect Song. I just retried it now. It seemed like it didn't trigger until I changed level (well left town but still). I can't be sure though because I was on full health.
Edit: Just threw a dagger through a wall. I tunnelled into it afterwards to check it was a normal wall.
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Post by Gando on May 14, 2009 15:39:55 GMT -5
Most vaults ends up with a "miniboss" enemy that can be up to 20 depth levels higher. So you could have met a depth 36 enemy there. Be glad it wasn't a Mature Dragon! Such is the enemy you need to defeat to get a free blue staff or rod with an enchantment equal to the current depth level you're in. Though again, it's a matter of luck. Sometimes, this enemy is just as weak as the other ones. As for the Bard, I'm surprised that it's not working at all for you. The healing song should work. Rotekian, can you tell us how you made your healing song? We can compare what Gando did versus what you did. That said, the class probably has flaws. It's a new class with an entirely new system which has had little testing. I'll try to play a pure Bard myself, and see if I have any better luck, and if so, I'll post the build in the strategy section. But a level 40 in a level 16 dungeon? and it was a stinking components vault at that. Not even a good vault. No treasure to speak of. Re: the power 1 bolt. I did not try that because as we know power 1 doesn't do anything normally. Lol. I will see if that makes a difference and get back to you.
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Post by Gando on May 14, 2009 18:18:34 GMT -5
Nope heal other power 1 did nothing as expected.
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Post by Gando on May 14, 2009 22:51:37 GMT -5
Harm does almost no damage (1-14) as a converted spell to song, compared to Missile which deals 5kx the damage.
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Post by Gando on May 14, 2009 22:57:10 GMT -5
I have to say I hate the way the Passive songs work. Killing friends unintentionally is very very very annoying. In fact I'm done trying to work this. Having to restart when I get hosed has become tiresome.
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Post by Variaz on May 15, 2009 10:00:57 GMT -5
It isn't supposed to kill your friends actually. Harm should do at least as much as Missile and probably more, but Harm can be resisted if a monster successfully make a strength-based saving throw. This is to make up for the fact that very, very few enemies resists Harm. (I think there's only one and it's a Nightmare).
Well, thanks for testing the class anyway. Sorry you didn't have a fun time with it. I'll try to play it as well, and see if I encounter any of these problems, though I don't remember having so many issues. Then again, it was a melee bard, not a pure song bard, so I'll try the pure song bard, and see how it goes.
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Post by Gando on May 15, 2009 16:04:56 GMT -5
1) My bard is not a pure song bard either (you can see more or less what I did with the save I sent you concerning that dungeon freeze bug. I went mage, then enchanter and then when I felt strong enough to diversify I added bard. Because my first two bards were so bad I felt compelled to delete them.
2) It isn't your fault that I don't like it. I guess I expected a different experience because the Kensei and Crafter and Diviner were all so much better than the other classes and there was quite a bit of synergy between them but you didn't make it a prestige class so of course it doesn't have the power.
3) The songs not working...well that's why we test things. Bugs happen. Harm does not deal anywhere near what missile deals. I suspect it is looking at different stats or something when it calculates damage. Or maybe it just treats it the same as a 1 power harm bolt. Which would do almost no damage if any.
The thing that irritated me the most about the bard was the way the passive works. I understand it is natural to need to turn them on and off to avoid killing friends but it is clumsy and not fun. Also it seems the constructed spells (not using the Create Song ability) are hardly functional. Confuse lasts a round or two unless of course it is reflected in which case it lasts for thousands of rounds. Healing does not work at all. I did not get to try the piercing Song yet because I lost it before I could use it.
Another thing: Reflection really really hurts the bard because unlike other classes his abilities all center on himself so he can not target. Since it is automatic (which is fun otherwise) you don't always get to see what has reflection. And the damage from my missile spell turned Song deals over double my hp (Bards/mages don't get lots of hp) so if it gets reflected it is an instant kill if I don't evade. These are all problems that I am sure with practice can be over come to some degree but all in all it makes a disappointing experience. Obviously my ideas don't work in practice sadly.
Part of my disappointment stems from the fact that it took so long to come out that I stopped playing regularly and lost touch with some of the basics of the game. Relearning that stuff meant making some mistakes I wouldn't have made normally and also I guess my infamous "luck" had something to do with it. After All with 22 levels of experience I found ONE levelable and it was a staff. As I said previously, that is not an optimal tool for this Crafter/Bard since I lose 2 slots to equip it and any semblance of combat ability.
Anyway good luck with your own tests.
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Post by Variaz on May 15, 2009 16:31:49 GMT -5
This wasn't meant to be that way, and I actually found the cause of it. I only had placed a condition to check for Sound element songs, but anything else would hurt friends. So if you used Harm, that's why it killed your friends. It's fixed now. If you've read my post in the Suggestions forum, you'll see that my luck wasn't any better than yours.
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Post by Gando on May 16, 2009 1:00:55 GMT -5
Actually it was with the missile passive. The harm passive was entirely useless. (Though I suppose it would kill townies.)
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T10
Veteran
Posts: 99
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Post by T10 on May 18, 2009 5:36:03 GMT -5
I tested the music skill during my play. A singing ghost was made and a healing effect song was composed. By the book, it is a continuous area effect. It isn't. It worked at my ghost's first step only, then fade to nothingness. Tried many times the experience was the same: one flash of music then nothing.
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Post by Variaz on May 18, 2009 8:10:37 GMT -5
I tested the music skill during my play. A singing ghost was made and a healing effect song was composed. By the book, it is a continuous area effect. It isn't. It worked at my ghost's first step only, then fade to nothingness. Tried many times the experience was the same: one flash of music then nothing. Make sure you make an Effect song, not Passive.
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T10
Veteran
Posts: 99
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Post by T10 on May 19, 2009 23:10:22 GMT -5
Tried many times effect and passive songs too with a ghost. It isn't a bard just compose the tree components. Only one flash of music then nothing. Song fades off from the K menu too.
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Post by xaint on May 28, 2009 12:23:19 GMT -5
Dont know, if this is a bug: I am in the dungeon close to main city (didnt remember the name - game is installed in the job computer :-P) , i use Word of recall, it transfers me to the city. Here i sell all the things which i collect, and try again Word of recall, and it teleportes me again back in the same city, so I appear some steps away from the place, where i recalled... Whats wrong? I can send the savegame if needed. Using last version from those pages, installed yesterday.
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Post by Gando on May 28, 2009 16:17:38 GMT -5
Dont know, if this is a bug: I am in the dungeon close to main city (didnt remember the name - game is installed in the job computer :-P) , i use Word of recall, it transfers me to the city. Here i sell all the things which i collect, and try again Word of recall, and it teleportes me again back in the same city, so I appear some steps away from the place, where i recalled... Whats wrong? I can send the savegame if needed. Using last version from those pages, installed yesterday. Call it a feature. It has to do with how the Randomized Dungeons work. You can't WoR back to a randomized dungeon once you leave because it disappears.
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