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Post by Variaz on Dec 26, 2008 20:28:18 GMT -5
Here's an idea of how the music system could work. Instruments could be the source of a song's powers, and the instruments could be described as being magical. Having magical instruments as the source of songs powers would justify why not everyone who plays music are able to produce devastating sonic waves! Songs would be made of the Melody, Harmony and Rythm items that Gando suggested in his original post. Melodies would be the song's type, which would produce various effects. Harmonies would determine the song's base power, and the Rythm would control the radius. When making a song, you would combine all three components, and this would create one final song that you would then "bind" to an instrument of your choice. Depending on the instrument and it's quality(purple/blue would obviously be better), the song would gain an additional modifier. The instrument then gain the song, and it could be turned on/off using 'A', as if you activated it. The effect would remain on as long as you want. This is my idea for the basic songs system, and I think it could work.
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Post by Gando on Dec 28, 2008 16:30:39 GMT -5
I like the idea of being able to sing a song without use of instruments for a low level effect (based on just raw musical ability). The fact is music is accessible to everyone on its most basic levels.
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T10
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Post by T10 on Jan 7, 2009 5:47:36 GMT -5
Let's give the "bare mouth" as a basic instrument to the system:)
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Post by rotekian on Jan 7, 2009 16:49:56 GMT -5
How does the Bard's magic differ from a Mage's or a a Priest's?
I was thinking one idea would be to have Bard magic be really good with duration magic. So the Bard conjures a creature and as long as they keep playing the creature stays. Similarly playing an attack magic spell would attempt to cast that spell each turn with some chance of success. The cost limit could be based on the power of the magic instrument. So unassisted playing requires zero cost spells or something like that. Additionally you could have penalties in combat while playing. This allows for abilities that remove those penalties for warrior-bards and abilities that give a bonus to the effective power of the instrument for mage-bards.
Edit: The downside for this idea is dealing with duration spells. Combat buffs might counter any combat penalties imposed, though this would be a trade off situation so it might not be a problem.
Each summon would need to be tracked and checked up on each player tick. In the case of the summon dying, an attempt to re-summon it would need to made.
Potentially this leads to unkillable summons which could cause problems in situations where the enemies were fixating on them rather than chasing down the player.
Optionally you could end the song (shatter the melody?) when a summon died, but this would result in the loss of all spell effects. This would weight the situation in favour of summoning one powerful creature rather than lots of weak ones.
What about dealing with multiple summons? Although provided a summon spell always created the same creatures (and number of creatures) on a level this ought to be no more problematic than summoning a single creature.
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Post by Variaz on Jan 7, 2009 19:59:23 GMT -5
Actually, bard songs will use an entirely different system than mages and priests, and will not use the same spells. They will have their own song items and instruments, and their own system for creating and playing songs, as well as their own effects. I was thinking that songs should be passive effects that affects things around the bard in a certain radius. Songs will mostly focus on supporting summons, dealing sound damages on enemies around you, causing ailments to enemies. There might also be other non-projected songs that instead gives passive boosts or have other effects. An interesting proposal. Basing singing cost on the instrument is a great idea! I don't really think this is necessary. Having this would just make it difficult to play a strong warrior-bard. Well, having songs that makes their duration infinite is one thing, but no need to make them immortal. If they die from damages, they will die, and will not be resummoned. I don't think it's a really good idea. Why would the bard stop signing just because one of his 20 fruit bats died? Not sure I know what problem you are talking about here...
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Post by rotekian on Jan 7, 2009 20:20:11 GMT -5
For the resummoning thing. Let me put it this way why wouldn't the player just immediately resummon anyway? Although the answer to that depends on the implementation details of the bard and how much access to mana (or the equivalent) they have.
If summons are infinite duration then it encourages the player to try and fill the map with creatures. So I was imagining the creature would be unsummoned after the bard stopped playing.
Some of the detail has to do with how I was thinking about it, I was thinking in terms of a duration spell where the duration doesn't start ticking down until the music stops.
In regards to the 20 fruit bats thing, yeah that was what I thought, but if you wanted to encourage only one summon it was an option.
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Post by Gando on Jan 8, 2009 3:20:02 GMT -5
I like the 0 cost for no instrument...and incrementing it for equipped instruments idea. Welcome to the forums btw Rotekian. The rest of the proposals aren't thrilling.
Also I dont think songs should be entirely passive. The whole thing about sonic attacks would go by the wayside if that was the case. There should be at least one sound feild song available (and as I proposed in the earlier posts, adding components to the complexity of a song could add other elements...(I submit Ravel's Bolero for example as an inspiration to arsonists everywhere. So Bolero clearly adds +fire)
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Post by Variaz on Jan 8, 2009 13:13:58 GMT -5
What is Ravel's Bolero? ..... ..... Ok....what is a Bolero?
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Post by Gando on Jan 9, 2009 0:52:15 GMT -5
Ravel is a late 19th-early 20th century composer whose work "Bolero" is said to inspire Arsonists and unnerve those who are NOT inclined to arson. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boléro for information about the composition and composer ...but no mention there of the arsonist theme. I guess that is something mostly talked about by cops. My Uncle was a corrections officer and he is the one who told me about this connection. Anyway A Bolero is a type of hat. With a top part with a wide rim like a cowboy hat, worn by Gauchos (spanish cowboys). What it has to do with the music I have no idea. =edit= the disambiguation on the Wiki explains it....a bolero is also a type of latin music.
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T10
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Post by T10 on Jan 9, 2009 4:59:27 GMT -5
Please, don't let the bard to be an 1000th one-from-100 spellcaster with one-from-100th type fireballs... It's a chance to build a non-blodthrisy class with more peaceful tools to solve problems.
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Post by Gando on Jan 9, 2009 7:16:52 GMT -5
Please, don't let the bard to be an 1000th one-from-100 spellcaster with one-from-100th type fireballs... It's a chance to build a non-blodthrisy class with more peaceful tools to solve problems. There is no reason why you can't play a Bard as a blood thirsty type if you want and still no reason why you can't play him/her as a pacifist if you so choose. BUT the fact of the matter is...the pacifist route will always be harder and less enjoyable in some senses. Also are you going to really tell me all the bards you know and love were peaceloving beatniks? I mean...really...give us a break. Now that said I am not suggesting the bard spell casting abilities be on par with Elemental Lords or High Mages. But I am suggesting that they have the at the very minimum the ability to do damage with sound. Sound is the realm of the singer/musician and should not be ignored as a weapon as well as a more subversive tool. I dont think the emphasis will BE on damage effects/spells but they should exist.
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Post by Variaz on Jan 12, 2009 23:50:34 GMT -5
Started coding the Music skill, and creating the basic Melody, Harmony and Rhythm items, as well as the basic hard code. However, unlike the normal spells, I plan on making more lua-based code for the music system that I did with the spells(it's due to the fact that the spell system was done before lua implementation, and conversion will take a long time), so it will be easier to customize. I want it to be rather easy to create new song effects if players wish to, and surely will the Bard class love it as well.
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Post by Variaz on Jan 17, 2009 19:35:49 GMT -5
Song composition is pretty much done, and 100% lua based. There are three types of songs you can make: 1. Passive songs. Passive effects that will work like auras, affecting things around you. 2. Instant. Kind of like a "Circle" spell. 3. Effect. Something that will affect you. You can compose any of the three types with any of the songs, thus allowing flexibility, and the possibility to create a song to kill yourself with! Melody provides the song's element. (it's all element-based. For "effect" songs, it's similar to drinking a potion). Harmony controls the power, and rhythm the radius. When composing songs, you will get a charisma requirement. Each song components have their own charisma requirement, and they are additive when composing a song. You will only be able to perform a song if you have enough charisma. Raising Music reduces the charisma requirement a bit, though only the base Music skill is used for this purpose(it's considered one of the skill's feats). Also, instruments, once implemented, will also help. Song components items are reusable. They do not deplete themselves once used, so once you get a song component, you can keep it for as long as you want.
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Post by Variaz on Jan 19, 2009 16:48:36 GMT -5
The basic music system is pretty much complete! I made instruments wearable in the "carry" slot. For damaging songs, they will provide bonus similar to rods. For other songs, it may vary a bit. I will also add a charisma requirement reduction based on the instrument's "base damages". Essence monsters that can't wear instruments can use their main essences instead. So now, the next part is to test it, and make songs! Some planned effects: - Sound damages. (and probably other elements later on) - Songs to prevent summons from disappearing. - Passive boosts. - Healing, allies-buffing songs. - Status ailments songs. You can have 1 passive song active, but you can use any "instant" songs at any times. Compared to the spells system, song system is much more moddable, and it should be easy to create new melodies if you want to.
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Post by Gando on Jan 22, 2009 4:47:39 GMT -5
I look forward to seeing this. Some random instruments: strings: Guitar, Lute, Mandolin, Violin/Viola, Cello, Harp. woodwinds: harmonica, flute, clarinet, picolo brass: trumpet, trombone, saxophone percussion: conga, bongos, maracas, tamborine... hope this helps
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