Monster player: evolving

[Keeper]

How and when a monster player can evolve?
I'm currently playing in a baby multi-hued dragon and, at level 11 it says: "You cannot evolve anymore".
Why? Is there a level requirement? Class level? Experience?

[challtdow]

When you can evolve is determined by you base level and the base levels of the monster family you are from. You have to get your level equal to or greater than that of the monster you want to evolve into.

Chall T. Dow

P.S. Dragons are great, especially when you hit lvl 100. Great Wyrm of Power here I come. ;D

[serin]

you can get a GWoP by level 58, I think. but right, just keep pushing the "Y" button each time you level to see if you can change, but a word of caution.... don't automatically evolve when you can, some states of evolution are worse off than your current state.

[Variaz]

GWoP by level 58? You shouldn't be able to do that. It works with your experience level, so the GWoP should be level 90-91, something like that. Level 58? I doubt it. Though there are other wyrms at this level, but not the GWoP.

[Nork]

I am playing a "L" and I'm level 28 and I still have not evolved yet. any idea when you can evolve for the first time?

[Variaz]

"L" is lich. At level 34, you will be able to turn into a "Lich". I assume you are a Death Disciple right now... Here's the list of "Lich" monsters you will be able to get, and at which level:

37: Crypt Thing
39: Monastic Lich
41: Master Lich (with undead summoning ability, hope you have some Leadership skill!)
42: Iron Lich at 42(elemental melee damages, also undead summoner, BREATH ATTACK!!!)
45: Lesser Black Reaver(strong, but no summons.)
54: Demilich(strong, ability to summon masses of strong undeads!)
64: ArchLich(stronger, lots of spells, even more summoning powers!)
71: Black Reaver(stronger in melee, but not as good at summoning, more limited magic abilities. Still strong though...)

It is important to know, when playing as a monster, that just because you can "evolve" into another creature doesn't mean the "evolved" creature will be better. For the Liches, here's the ones I think you should consider, depending on your character's build:

Iron Lich: 3 elemental melee attacks at 5d6 is nice, it has summoning powers, ball spells for Fire, Cold, Electricity and Water, Cause Critical Wounds and a FIRE BREATH ATTACK(at 28d100 hp), making the Iron Lich the best magic attacker amongst the Liches. You can also get this one at level 42, which is pretty early compared to the other good liches.
PROS: Elemental melee attacks(Fire, Cold and Electricity), fire breath attack, undead summoning, other ball spells, 28d100 hp is pretty good for that level.
CONS: No blinking/teleport abilities like other liches, must rely on summons to beat magic immune enemies, in the long run 5d6 for melee damages might be a bit low.

ArchLich: Summon masses of high undeads, can summon kin, demons and weaker undeads if needed. Add a nether ball, cause critical wounds, teleporting and healing powers, two strong damaging melee attacks at 13d12 and 50d100 hp, and you have quite a solid and versatile monster here. If you like summoning powers, then definitly pick the ArchLich, it's the best at that!
PROS: Best summoner amongst the liches, good hp, lots of nice spells.
CONS: No breath magic attacks, only two damaging melee attacks.

Black Reaver: Four melee attacks(two at 12d8 and two at 8d6), 75d100 hp, mana and nether ball spells and minor undead summoning abilities. Highest hp amongst the Liches, 4 good melee attacks, and nice magical abilities to complement that. While not as good as the ArchLich at summoning, and lacking some of the ArchLich's good spells, such as teleport and healing, it is probably a better choice if you didn't raise Leadership skill(or don't plan to), and if you go melee.
PROS: Strongest melee attacker in Liches, highest hp, mana balls and minor summoning spells, which can still be useful.
CONS: Lacks the ArchLich's large array of spells, no teleporting, level 71 is pretty late in the game.

Now, which one to choose? If you want to focus on magic attacks, the Iron Lich is the way to go. If you want a large array of spells and like summoning all kind of creatures, then pick the ArchLich(and make sure you have some Leadership skill!). Finally, if you want to go melee, then pick the Black Reaver. Of course, this is only my opinion. Iron Lich and Black Reaver still have some summoning powers, and feel free to choose them for summoning. ArchLich has two melee attacks at 13d12, that IS strong, so it can go melee as well.

Anyway, that's it. Pick your Lich wisely, and have fun!

[Nork]

I'm a "Lich" now at level 38. The only big problem I'm having is the physical immune / magic returning elite/bosses. What kind of attacks can I use on those that will effect them and not kill me?

Thanks for the help

[Variaz]

Well, for a Lich, they are kind of problematic. Try summoning some undeads, and hopefully you get something that does magic damages in melee combat, or has magical breaths or spells. But if your Leadership skill and charisma are low.... well... I guess the only solution left is to run away. Summon some creatures to make your escape easier, or teleport away... Don't feel bad about running away. I had to run away too while playing Aliesra. Some monsters are just TOO nasty!

[zekk]

Can someone list the monster's baby gold dragons can evolve into and at what level? I Can't beat the kobold thief and I'd like to know.

[Variaz]

Because dragons are very powerful later in the game, it takes 50% more levels to upgrade them than other monsters(except demons, because Greater Demons are going to be equally difficult).

Around level 22-23, you'll be able to upgrade to a Wyvern. Wyverns do no have breath attacks, but have more hp and higher melee than baby dragons, as well as better speed, which will help against Balgam since he's fast.

At level 33, you'll be able to upgrade to the Young dragons. Around 52-53, you'll be able to go Mature and at level 60, you'll reach the mighty Mature Prismatic Dragon, a very powerful monster indeed! (with 5d10 damages per attacks, 4 blows, powerful breaths, and all attacks/breaths comes in six different elements, to which you'll also have 100% resistance! Add this to the very high stats and AC and you've got quite a beast!)

It's probably around level 75 that you'll be able to turn ancient when the ancient dragons will be available(they're not in the game right now.). The Great Wyrms, however, might not be playable due to their high depths. They will probably be FAR too strong to be playable anyway. They're going to be very rare, but when you meet one, it WILL increase your death count.

[challtdow]

Awe, so does that mean no more GWoP? *cries* Oh and sort of off topic, but in the older versions, you could seriously slow down your comp if you were an ancient dragon/'L' against the other one. If you both summon lots of things you could literally fill the entire map since some of them tunnel. It was fun.

Chall T. Dow

[Variaz]

Well, there WILL be Great Wyrms(maybe not the GWoP, but something equivalent for sure), but they probably won't be playable! They will be uber enemies for high level characters who wants something more than a Small Kobold to kill!

[challtdow]

That part of the charm of playing a dragon though. The fact that you could eventually become one of the most powerful monsters in the game made all the toil worth-while. Plus being able to breath disintigration is just cool.

Chall T. Dow

[zekk]

I remember a joke monster in a different rogue-like. It was called the "great worm of power' I met it on depth 1, and it was really easy- could do no damage whatsoever. I went up to level 16 because I was level 1 when I killed it. Very lol-ish.

[soloman]

This section was very helpful in finding out a few of the viable monster classes to play. Is there anyway to compose a list of these monsters. "L" and "d" both seem playable. I saw that someone played a bear, but they couldn't evolve past a brown bear. Maybe a list of the characters and the things they can evolve into would be really neat.