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Post by Variaz on Jul 12, 2006 10:18:01 GMT -5
Some variants uses an overworld feature(actually, the old Pern which NewAngband was originally based on had one), and I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to reinplement that. Since I am creating a new world, I thought it could be nice to have an overworld, it would help create a universe! And while the main story and quests will all happen in the world's major cities(they will be BIG! , I tought placing multiple smaller towns or secret areas could be a fun way to add more dungeons, more towns, more quests, more stuff to find, perhaps make some amazing discoveries... and of course, perhaps a few places filled with strong enemies! If I am to create a world, why limit it to only the major cities? (although they, alone, will provide countless hours of gameplay! ) Share your opinions on that!
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Post by challtdow on Jul 12, 2006 15:57:27 GMT -5
I like it. Especially having some dungeons/small towns that are hidden. Maybe you could have special NPCs or shops in some of the towns and some special rewards in the hidden dungeons so that people not as obsessed with doing everything as me have more incentive to hunt for them. I think that both smaller towns and big cities should be in the overworld. You can have it so all the cities are far apart and have small towns as sort of rest stops in between.
Chall T. Dow
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Post by Lipa on Jul 14, 2006 7:07:52 GMT -5
That would be really great! Many cities, many dungeons... much fun!!!
You should probably make sure that even if a player gets stuck in the main story (perhaps he can't figure out a puzzle, or perhaps he needs a special item...), he should still be able to do some standard "roguelike adventuring" in some unimportant to the story, yet fun and deep side-dungeon. Just to keep him from getting frustrated...
And another suggestion: Since this new game will obviosly be *BIG* (can't wait!), perhaps it would be sensible to start slow. Perhaps you should (as soon as the mechanics are ready) release the 1.8.0 with only a few quests, world's main geography and story, and then in every future release (1.8.x) you could add towns, quests, dungeons, stuff... It would probably make the construction of the game much easier to you, and also more exciting to us.
And by the 1.8.9, it could really evolve into something!!!
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Post by Variaz on Jul 14, 2006 10:15:09 GMT -5
Well, seems like the overworld is a good idea after all! There will be a great number of small quests and dungeons, and valuable artifacts hidden in places where you wouldn't expect them to be! Looks like I'll give implenting an overworld a shot! However, there are things we need to think about... Will there be random enemies in the wild? And how should we handle them? Should they be leveled and scaled depending on the player's level, or should there just be weak enemies... Should elites/bosses be allowed in the great outdoor? Should there be enemies at all?
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Post by Lipa on Jul 14, 2006 15:28:39 GMT -5
Personally, I'm not too keen about monsters wandering in the overworld (I remember I *hated* them in Z-Angband ). To me, the overworld is just a cosmetic issue that adds to the general "feel" of the enviroment. You get the idea of how the world looks like, and your imagination starts flowing... Fighting, on the other hand, should be done in dungeons.
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Post by challtdow on Jul 14, 2006 22:11:18 GMT -5
I like having monsters in the overworld myself. Not many of course, but some are good. I think they should scale with the player level for the most part. Though if you could also make it so that different terrain features made it more likely to find different types of monsters that would be good as well. Like you don't expect to find a forest troll in the middle of the mountains, and there shouldn't be many fire dragons beside a lake.
Chall T. Dow
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Post by Variaz on Jul 14, 2006 22:32:22 GMT -5
I think only ANIMAL monsters, and perhaps a few bandits, will appear on the random overworld cells. I won't like too many powerful monsters in the wilderness myself, though an empty wilderness is not very realistic either. Also, there won't be elites and bosses. Wilderness enemies will be there to add some flavor to the overworld, not to turn it into a nightmare!
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Post by Lipa on Jul 15, 2006 1:02:34 GMT -5
Agreed!
One more thing: how do you plan to implement the travelling? Will it be ToME-like (fast travelling via the "<" command), or will it be Z-Angband-like (screen by screen).
Personally, I like the ToME solution. If you travel this way, you can also avoid monsters altogether. Of course, when you zoom back in (">"), to find the dungeon entrance, or to complete a quest, monsters appear...
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Post by Variaz on Jul 15, 2006 1:46:03 GMT -5
I don't know... Personally, I'm afraid fast-travelling will just be too fast, outdoor should be something you take your time to explore. However, instead, in towns, I will probably place services such as transport that will allow you to get to places quickly, for a fee. Also, your current location will be revealed on the bottom-right of the screen, so you will know where you're at.
There will definitly be Screen-by-Screen mode, however, whether or not I implement fast-travel mode as well I haven't decided yet.
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eagleon
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Aspiring Technohermit
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Post by eagleon on Jul 15, 2006 4:13:05 GMT -5
It'd be nice to be able to get a little bit away from dungeon crawling if you wanted to. My idea would be to have trails between towns that have relatively few dangerous monsters, but allow nastier (wilderness-themed) ones to spawn off the beaten path. Perhaps make the -very- dangerous ones, like dragons and such, have their own random quests, where you have to help a group of hired adventurers clean its den out to keep it from ravaging the local landscape (Of course, you could always just run. ) It'd make playing a ranger-type a bit more believable, and open up a new arena of play, with new tactics. If you're going to make overland travel impossible except for paying, a map of where you've been at least would be nice, so that we don't get lost. Maybe some nasty but solitary monsters could have spells that teleport you out of the dungeon so that they don't have to deal with you. An embarassing but non-fatal power for god-like beings.
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Post by Lipa on Jul 15, 2006 7:27:44 GMT -5
Oh, I absolutely love the idea about the transport service!!! ;D
So perhaps "fast" travelling is really not that important. Instead, you could stick to screen-to-screen travelling, and perhaps even implement different "types" of travelling, just to make the whole thing more interesting:
a) The simplest (and most dangerous) way would be to simply travel alone through the wilderness. This way, you could explore the world, seek for hidden dungeons, fight some area-based monsters, etc... Pretty much Z-Angband style.
b) In towns (and in towns only) you could pay for a ride to another town (transport service). This would be the safest way to travel (no fighting), and most expensive. And you would also get no information about the land between the towns, of course.
c) Perhaps from time to time, you could encounter a random group of fellow adventurers (just about anywhere). They could ask you something like: "We're going to [town or other specific location], will you join us?" This would have two benefits: firstly, if you would get ambushed on the road, together you could defend more easily, and secondly, perhaps the group could take you to a place that you didn't know before! On the other hand, you couldn't exactly go where *you* wanted to, you'd just have to follow the group...
d)...
Anyway, a world map would indeed be nice to help you orient yourself. And it could be updated as you go, showing more locations, towns, dungeons...
Hm... Now that I think of it, Baldur's Gate kinda came into my mind. Do you know (remember) Baldur's Gate? There, you could travel directly from town to town (fast, and from time to time you could get ambushed on the road), or you could go exploring on your own, often finding new dungeons, quests, etc...
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Post by nork on Jul 15, 2006 7:32:18 GMT -5
Personally I think the Rogue like games are all about the dungeons. I know every one else here is being all gung-ho about the over world, but to me it is all about the dungeon. If I want an over world I would probably play another game with amassing graphics for the over world.
I love the dungeon crawl, it's what I play this game for. I would not be upset if it had an over world, but I don't want it to become the focus of the game.
Just my opinion, Nork
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Post by Variaz on Jul 15, 2006 10:43:16 GMT -5
Oh my, so many opinions!! Now, what am I going to to? Okay, maybe start by making an ASCII map of Portalis first(or maybe just a small, beta map to start...), and implement the feature. There are so many interesting things we can do with this! Hide special stuff in wilderness, random dungeons in the wild, lots of towns each with their own share of quests, and more! But of course, as nork mentionned, the dungeons should not be neglected in favor of the overworld. After all, he is right, dungeons are what we all like Angband for! Therefore, I will try to avoid too much wandering for the main story. However, those who likes the overworld will have many, many quests and more to have fun with! So this way, everyone will be pleased!
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Post by Variaz on Jul 17, 2006 8:26:08 GMT -5
Well, the wilderness is officially back now! I managed to implement wilderness again, and made a simple map. Wilderness screens will be randomly generated, depending on what terrain is placed on the map. I tested it, and believe me, Rangers will be happy to have their Forestry ability when travelling in forests! Otherwise, be prepared to chop down trees, and I hope you have lots of rations! But of course, there is still a lot to do. I plan on making random dungeons appear in the wild, with their depth varying depending on the player's level. Perhaps I will also put some random stuff, like a few random buildings, perhaps a random shop or inn or the like... and of course, a few wild animals.... and perhaps a rare creature once in a while! Little things that will make overworld travelling interesting. Next step is to finish implementing the various types of wilderness. And then, create the Portalis map! It will be big. Very big! It will take a long time to go trough every cells!
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Post by Variaz on Jul 22, 2006 13:54:58 GMT -5
Created a 100x100 overworld map of Portalis! I think 10000 overworld cells are enough to keep everyone busy for a while! ;)They are always randomly generated, and random dungeons can appear in the wild! And of course, as I create the game, more hidden stuff will be hidden in this big world, and you will have fun exploring the world and it's secrets!
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