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Post by random on Mar 14, 2010 14:36:58 GMT -5
I've finally decided to try a mage/high mage -- or close to one, since I'm doing a bit of monk for some survivability at lower levels -- for the first time in ages, and I've realized why I stopped trying before: I can't seem to figure out a way to make the character worthwhile. The mana costs grow prohibitive, the number of powerful monsters that resist/reflect/laugh mockingly at my spells have started to force me to running and hiding, and I've not figured out which specialization would be the most useful.
I've finally aborted my attempts with a half-elf mage after a couple dozen deaths at dungeon levels I should be doing just fine with, given my character level. I've started a new one and, with the exception of magic missile to give me some sort of ranged attack at low levels, I've developed him very little. So I need advice on how to build up a (mostly) pure mage/high mage sort.
And any insight on how the point system when creating spells works would be nice. How does "xxx" number of mana in Power translate into damages? That is, if I put, hypothetically-speaking, 100 mana into Power, what sorts of damages should I expect against the average non-resistant monster?
Also, is there some sort of secret to getting enough mana to do some of the more powerful variants? A ball spell for a certain element might cost me 1000 mana, but a "Ranged" version with the exact same Power runs 7 million mana. Mana issues border on overwhelming (for me) at later stages in the game -- level 50 monsters I can take out with ease using a mostly-melee character I can barely scratch using normal magic because of mana requirements to create truly powerful spells (and, just as importantly, create powerful spells I can use multiple times within the confines of the amount of mana I have available to me. Nothing more frustrating than being surrounded by a horde of monsters with multiple lives and realizing I can only take away one life for a half-dozen of them before having to flee and recharge.)
All-in-all, I find it a bit frustrating. I've done fine, if not spectacular, with Elemental Lords, but I was hoping to avoid relying on that in my attempt to create a workable "pure" mage. I'm tempted to go the Celestial/zulgor light/chaos route, but that feels like a bit of a cop-out as well.
One last question. Before I use AP points on it, does Improved Activation affect rods and staves, or just yellows? It specifies "artifacts," but I can hardly see how this power would be worthwhile if it was relevant only to the 40 or so "artifacts"...most of which wouldn't even be the first item of choice in its equipment slot for a mage.
Thanks for any help y'all can give me.
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khan
Veteran
Posts: 81
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Post by khan on Mar 14, 2010 15:17:40 GMT -5
Ironically the best way I've found to increase mana is to go defender and get armoured spellcasting. 10 levels of this combined with levels in heavy armoured defense and some good hard/dragon armour can boost your mana far more than the mage/high mage abilities that increase mana and also incidentally increases your defence.
15 skill points early on in rods can help early survivability as you can then use zap as your primary attack for free (duel wielding rods can help give you more attack power too and if you use two different elements on your crystals can make you harder to resist). Rods are you friends.
If you don't go celestial/zulgor (or demon) then I would find it very difficult to survive with a mage type character without at least a few levels in the elemental lords piercing spells ability.
I really don't believe that you can make a 'pure' mage that works well without some delving in other classes and I think the mage and high mage need a revamp - abilities to increase mana better, abilities for piercing immunities/resistance etc.
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kipar
Champion
Posts: 201
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Post by kipar on Mar 14, 2010 15:53:18 GMT -5
A ball spell for a certain element might cost me 1000 mana, but a "Ranged" version with the exact same Power runs 7 million mana. The Ball and Ranged types are incomparable in terms of power. When you use Ball spell your damage will be like Power_of_spell*Intelligence*(1+Elemental/5+Spellcraft/10) (+damage from used rods\staff, but i don't remember exact formula), so you have to increase power again and again to match monsters. When you use Ranged spell - it has damages based on your ranged weapon damages (Power_of_spell*Ranged_damage/10), so if you have very high ranged weapon damages power_of_spell=1..10 should be enough. |
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Post by random on Mar 14, 2010 16:03:43 GMT -5
khan: Thanks for the reply. I was hoping to avoid any of the fighting classes (except, as I mentioned, monk, which is kinda mystical, so I don't feel too bad + I was hoping to only use it to survive at lower levels with barehand and Ki Punch before switching to relying on magic.) But you may be right -- it seems difficult to run a proper "pure" mage. I do fine with "fighting" mages (and really well with Light of Life + Light Lord,) but mostly I just cobble together a set of utility spells to support melee. I did just find my first couple of rods for my new character, though no crystals yet. I do wonder if I'm using the crystals wrong...I equip them in my instrument slot, but the description seems to imply that the rods and crystals can somehow be joined. kipar: Ah, okay. That explains something I wasn't clear on. I still have issues creating spells powerful enough to make a dent at really high levels, but at least that point has been cleared up for me. Unfortunately, I include training as an archer/gunner in my desire to avoid melee classes.
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Post by Gando on Mar 14, 2010 17:44:50 GMT -5
You can buy crystals in the crystals shop in Ugor I believe and also in the blackmarket. Additionally they appear often on the floor of random dungeons.
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Post by random on Mar 14, 2010 20:07:26 GMT -5
You can buy crystals in the crystals shop in Ugor I believe and also in the blackmarket. Additionally they appear often on the floor of random dungeons. Oh, finding/buying crystals wasn't my problem. I just hadn't found a rod or staff at the time. I was just curious about the fact that the crystals are equipped separately in the instrument slot. |
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Post by Gando on Mar 15, 2010 15:07:10 GMT -5
Rather instruments are equipped in the crystal slot ;P
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Post by random on Mar 15, 2010 18:43:48 GMT -5
Rather instruments are equipped in the crystal slot ;P Now that's just crazy talk. Everyone knows that holding a bass guitar is way cooler than holding a valueless piece of rock. "Crystal slot" indeed.  |
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Post by Gando on Mar 15, 2010 19:56:18 GMT -5
Rather instruments are equipped in the crystal slot ;P Now that's just crazy talk. Everyone knows that holding a bass guitar is way cooler than holding a valueless piece of rock. "Crystal slot" indeed. Not sure about bass guitars but surely a Rickenbacker outcools crystal. But Crystals are a bit older than instruments in the game.  |
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Post by challtdow on Mar 16, 2010 9:38:33 GMT -5
I I would suggest reincarnating next time you die to take advantage of the paladin's shining armor ability. If you can put at least 25 points in it, you can make armor that won't inhibit spellcasting. So use it on some of the dragon stuff from the rare shop if you don't have anything better. Then reincarnate again and put the points back where they belong.
Chall T. Dow
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Post by random on Mar 16, 2010 13:53:28 GMT -5
I I would suggest reincarnating next time you die to take advantage of the paladin's shining armor ability. If you can put at least 25 points in it, you can make armor that won't inhibit spellcasting. So use it on some of the dragon stuff from the rare shop if you don't have anything better. Then reincarnate again and put the points back where they belong. Chall T. Dow Even though it feels a little bit like fudging the rules, I'd do that (Paladin is more 'magic' than Defender, too) except Shining Armor doesn't appear to work on dragon armor, and dragon armor is the type I'd prefer for the flying (as a nearly pure mage, I really can't afford to waste my slots on Rings of Flying or Speed...not when I need all the stats I can get, especially constitution and intel. I can always Haste myself for speed, after all.) Why doesn't it work on dragon armor, I wonder? It works fine on the Greater and Lesser dragon mails, just not on the colored variations of armor. |
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Post by Gando on Mar 16, 2010 14:53:18 GMT -5
Because they are made with alchemy + crafting so they don't follow the normal rules for armor. I'm guessing Variaz just didn't bother or forget to include them.
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Post by random on Mar 17, 2010 12:43:09 GMT -5
Okay, this is driving me nuts. I had one character who, when he cast Grow Trees, created actual barriers, trees that blocked creatures that couldn't fly or pass through things. But two other characters only manage to create trees that most random (not just bosses or the like) creatures just burrow through. The tree disappears into a grassy space and the monsters are not impeded in any way. I'm not even talking powerful monsters. Kobolds do it as easily as dragons (who, incidentally, burrow straight through and destroy the tree rather than flying over it.) I've checked and there doesn't seem to be any obvious explanation for why the one character's trees hold and the other two characters' trees don't. I've verified it's not related to spellcraft ability or character level or conjuration level. It doesn't seem to be related to class. Is this a bug? Frankly, the Grow Trees ability isn't an inconsiderable one...though lots of creatures can pass over/through trees, especially at the higher levels, the trees can mean the difference between instadeath line-of-sight issues and surviving another round. Edit: just realized, it's not only the monsters moving, the trees seem to be destroyed out from underneath me if they attack me. A bunch of green and white worm masses did it this time. If there's any way I can fix this, I'd like to hear...playing a pure mage character is hard on the health and AC, so anything that helps me keep out of sight for a round or two is really nice.  |
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Post by random on Mar 19, 2010 13:10:59 GMT -5
Since Variaz is choosing not to weigh in on a couple of my questions, I'll just move on. Y'all have all been very helpful, and I was wondering if I might impose a bit more. I'm going to avoid going the defender/paladin route for now and try crafting. Unfortunately, I haven't played a crafter since just after I first started playing this game and I'm suddenly befuddled about a couple things. One, where's the command/power to craft an item? Nothing in the help files seems to jump out at me. I know about Enchanter's Blessing scrolls, but thought a crafter could enchant an orange item him or herself. And two, would it be spoilerish to give out an approximation of what alchemy/crafting levels are necessary for certain brand/AC/essence transfers?
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kipar
Champion
Posts: 201
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Post by kipar on Mar 19, 2010 15:53:47 GMT -5
Playing a crafter is funny!
Once your crafting skill>1 you will have two abilities ('U' menu):
Decompose Item and Compose Item.
You can try decomposing everything and then compose it back - it is the safest way for start, because you will never lose any components this way.
And it become useful after your crafting>10 (otherwise you won't get tweakable points).
About transfers - you can see depth of item when 'I'nspecting it. For AC transfer you must have at least Depth/4 AP in the ability. I don't remember formulas for other transfers, but this information is in abilities.txt.
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