Class blueprint - The Phase Warrior

[Frumple]

Spat this out about two months ago -- the idea is stolen, blatently and with permission, from FuryBand, a ToME varient (sorta'.). The original class in question is also quite awesome, in my opinion, and I'd like to implement it in some vague semblance of a balanced manner.

So I'm putting it here and asking the questions -- Is there any of what's outlined below that can't be implemented as Port is now? What could use some tweaking, as balance goes? Opinions on the abilities and suggestions thereon? My comments as of its current state are noted in the // areas.

In any case, please enjoy the concept conversion, hoho.

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Phase warrior: Mage/Warrior, Dex/Int, (Needs to have knowledge of spell effect warp? Element lord focus?)

// Obviously, I'm not sure about the requirements yet, heh. Possibly (and here's an odd one) a con limit for first gaining access to the class, which would fit thematically, sorta'. A con (or just HP%) penalty would also fit, or something along those lines.

1. Phase strike (Active, Combat)
Allows you to make a melee strike against anything in sight.
Every point after the first increases the number of blows (up to your maximum) by one.
Every 20 points increases the radius by 1.

// The key 'feature' of the original phase warrior was the ability to project your melee attack at a distance. This more or less mimics that.

2. Phase out (Active)
Increases your physical resist by 50% and grants wraithform, but disallows you from making direct melee attacks (Specials of various sorts still allowed, but ranged is not. Magic, etc. is still good.)
Additional points increase resist and duration.

// The original phase warrior gained wraithform after a few levels. This does something similar, but with a caveat. Frankly, wraithform is freakishly powerful when dealing with Port's current AI -- there's only two families of monsters ('G's and some 'w's) that can come after you if you retreat into the walls. It's a top-tier escape/recuperation method, only after teleportation. In any case, the non-melee aspect is to curtail using the ability to just slug it out with mobs. It's intended to support a distance fighter, as the PW is mostly meant to be.

3. Phase step (Active, Combat)
You make move an amount of spaces equal to your speed in any one direction (not targeted!). This move takes no time, but costs 15% of your _max_ hitpoints per activation (not per step). It _does not_ take into account the presence of (non-permenant) walls, so it is entirely possible to end up stuck inside something. (Maybe something interesting happens if you land on a inhabited square?)
Additional points (2-5) allow you to take an extra step after the first, adjusting direction as you move. You may cancel out at any time.
Every 10 points reduces the HP cost by 1%, to a minimum of 5%.

// Escape tool 2, with some neat stuff. Directed, even semi-directed teleportation is pretty wicked -- adding a variable (and thus controllable, especially when using some of PW's later abilities) constant for the distance just adds to it. The HP cost is to keep it from being spammed all over the place, as well as to emphasis early escape -- or pursuit, depending. I don't want "press button for safety" abilities, though -- the telescroll's just fine for that.

4. Space splitting speed (Passive)
Increases natural speed and grants physical resistance equal to that speed.
Additional points (3-5) increases speed and adds resistance beyond the max.

// Basic passive booster, if perhaps a little better than some other classes'. It synergizes, of course, as several of PW's abilities referance your speed.

5. Phase bounce (Active, Resistable)
Randomly teleports adjacent monsters. Resisted by avg of str and mind score.
Additional points increase power and distance teleported.

// TeleOther staves are pretty popular in several of the *Band varients. Basically the same concept, used to free up some distance (or break up a mob) when you don't want to be moving around.

6. Shift creature (Active, Resistable, Combat)
Applies your Phase Out to a single monster. Resisted by str/mind avg. If you have no points in Phase out, use half of the points invested in this (rounded up) instead.
Addtional points increase power and duration (beyond PO's own).
Every 10-15 points increases range by one -- the effect is a beam one, however.

// Can cripple many monster types, though it's more intended for crowd control, in a sense.

7. Shifting arms (Passive)
Allows you to ignore 10 or so percent of physical resistances (including physical immune bosses!), when using physical attacks.
Additional points increase the ignore amount.
Every 2 points allows you to treat target's physical resistance as 1% _lower_ than it actually is -- this is applied after the first effect.

// Thus'un's pretty badass, to be honest. The point/effect ratio might need to be widened, at least. A full 100 points in this would increase your physical damage by 50%, which is pretty nasty. Shifting the reduction effect to before the ignore might tone it down a little bit. In any case, just 10 points would let you bash ghosts in the face, which is pretty awesome.

8. Unstable phase (Active, Resistable)
Curses a monster to begin losing hp. For every 5% hp they lose, they gain a point of speed.
Additional points increase duration, power, and hp loss per turn.
Every 10 points increases the HP loss threshold for speed gain (5%->6%, 6%-7%, etc.)

// I like double-edged swords like this. Speedy enemies are nasty enemies, but countering regen and inducing degen is a pretty violent ability for a character as effective in hit'n'run as the PW.

9. Space splitting stride (Passive (?), Togglable)
You begin creating short-lived field effects where you step -- monsters within these fields lose 1 point of speed per turn.
Additional points increase duration of the field and speed loss.
Every 20 points allows you to gain a temporary speed boost (1 per turn per 20 points, stackable) by staying in the field. The effect degrades outside of the field, however, at the rate of 1 point per turn.

// Just a neat thing, really. It does allow you to prepare a battlefield before hand though, which can be pretty useful. That it can grant you temproary speed is just icing, imo.

10. Phase cloud (Passive)
All your active phase abilities (perhaps all abilities, period?) now create a short-lived field effect on all squares they effect. This field replicates the effects of your phase strike ability each turn it exists. If you lack the phase strike ability, use 1/4th this ability's score, rounded down.
Each point allows the field to sustain more strikes per turn -- it starts at one, and can reach a maximum of what your phase strike can.
Every 5 or so points increases duration.
Every 30 increases radius of the field by one, beyond whatever the ability may have.

// The original PW's effectively ultimate ability was being able to create clouds -- field equivelents -- of physical attacks, that could then be frikkin' layered on top of each other, which was bloody rediculous. And wonderful, hence this. It's also probably the most other-class-synergistic, assuming the 'any ability' caveat is introduced. Still bloody violent if not, though -- the cloud has the potential to turn all of your active phase skills into damage dealing nightmares. With abilities that are as motion-centric as the PW's, that can lay waste to a pretty large area, quite quickly. Wonderful stuff, hohoho.

[Gando]

As it happens this is one of my least favorite classes from Furyband.

[Frumple]

Ha! It's actually my favorite, and the only one I've ever actually beat it with. Hydra-hybrid phase warrior was a curbstomp, and I loved it. That it was also one of the few really original classes in the game was just a bonus ^^

Ah, anyway, m'not askin' for opinions on the original, yanno'? Fury's got his own forum for that, heh. Y'got anything on the Port-styled version? What is it with the original that turns you off? Is whatever that is still inherant with this incarnation?

[Variaz]

All right, let's review the class!

1. Phase strike (Active, Combat)
Allows you to make a melee strike against anything in sight.
Every point after the first increases the number of blows (up to your maximum) by one.
Every 20 points increases the radius by 1.

// The key 'feature' of the original phase warrior was the ability to project your melee attack at a distance. This more or less mimics that.

I had this concept in mind for a while, and somewhat implemented it through the Stalker's level 10 ability. This would allow a second ability to use it. Though I don't think we should allow multiple blows at a distance, since that would be somewhat overpowered. Or if we do, we'd have to give some sort of penalities to hit or something. I would be more in favor of a single blow that increase in damages.

2. Phase out (Active)
Increases your physical resist by 50% and grants wraithform, but disallows you from making direct melee attacks (Specials of various sorts still allowed, but ranged is not. Magic, etc. is still good.)
Additional points increase resist and duration.

// The original phase warrior gained wraithform after a few levels. This does something similar, but with a caveat. Frankly, wraithform is freakishly powerful when dealing with Port's current AI -- there's only two families of monsters ('G's and some 'w's) that can come after you if you retreat into the walls. It's a top-tier escape/recuperation method, only after teleportation. In any case, the non-melee aspect is to curtail using the ability to just slug it out with mobs. It's intended to support a distance fighter, as the PW is mostly meant to be.

Wraithform isn't as powerful as a bonus in Portralis, since a ring of flying is almost as powerful in forest/mountain/dark pits dungeons, of which there is a lot. Plus, in the current build, monsters can now target you with ranged/spells attacks if you're on a wall and if they can see you, something they didn't do before. And since many mobs can bring you down quickly, you often don't have the time to retreat later on. Also doesn't help in "open" levels and quests.

The 50% resist physical is a bit much for normal races, and for the "retreat through walls", you can already do that with trees and mountains without any penalities. I do have plans for eventually having items with the wraith form power, so I don't think this ability is that great, to be honest.

3. Phase step (Active, Combat)
You make move an amount of spaces equal to your speed in any one direction (not targeted!). This move takes no time, but costs 15% of your _max_ hitpoints per activation (not per step). It _does not_ take into account the presence of (non-permenant) walls, so it is entirely possible to end up stuck inside something. (Maybe something interesting happens if you land on a inhabited square?)
Additional points (2-5) allow you to take an extra step after the first, adjusting direction as you move. You may cancel out at any time.
Every 10 points reduces the HP cost by 1%, to a minimum of 5%.

// Escape tool 2, with some neat stuff. Directed, even semi-directed teleportation is pretty wicked -- adding a variable (and thus controllable, especially when using some of PW's later abilities) constant for the distance just adds to it. The HP cost is to keep it from being spammed all over the place, as well as to emphasis early escape -- or pursuit, depending. I don't want "press button for safety" abilities, though -- the telescroll's just fine for that.

This ability seems somewhat broken. Basically, you're in trouble, you teleport on wall. You lose hp, but a single healing spell and you're up and running(and then there's Great Guard...). Also, move takes no time? This makes what I just said even easier to do.

On the other hand, in quest levels, this ability isn't very useful at all. So it's either overpowered, or useless. Hence, broken.

Proposed fixes:

1. It takes a turn.
2. You teleport in a direction, but if you appear on a wall, you do NOT teleport and your turn is wasted.
3. Remove the hp penality entirely, but the maximum distance cannot exceed the ability's level.
4. Only one step is allowed, not multiple ones.

4. Space splitting speed (Passive)
Increases natural speed and grants physical resistance equal to that speed.
Additional points (3-5) increases speed and adds resistance beyond the max.

// Basic passive booster, if perhaps a little better than some other classes'. It synergizes, of course, as several of PW's abilities referance your speed.

This makes one of the game's best immunities way too easy to get. And resistance beyond the max, does this mean you want to absorb and heal when receiving physical blows?? This would be way too broken.

5. Phase bounce (Active, Resistable)
Randomly teleports adjacent monsters. Resisted by avg of str and mind score.
Additional points increase power and distance teleported.

// TeleOther staves are pretty popular in several of the *Band varients. Basically the same concept, used to free up some distance (or break up a mob) when you don't want to be moving around.

This is basically what the "Warp" element is all about, except it also does damages while doing it. So this ability isn't really worth it, Warp is overall much better.

6. Shift creature (Active, Resistable, Combat)
Applies your Phase Out to a single monster. Resisted by str/mind avg. If you have no points in Phase out, use half of the points invested in this (rounded up) instead.
Addtional points increase power and duration (beyond PO's own).
Every 10-15 points increases range by one -- the effect is a beam one, however.

// Can cripple many monster types, though it's more intended for crowd control, in a sense.

I don't know about this one. I wasn't too fond of this ability disabling melee and ranged in the first place, and indeed, that cripples many enemies, especially if it's ranged. But it doesn't make much sense in the case of many enemies that uses non-physical attacks. If we allowed non-physical attacks to be used, then in the late game, this ability would become more of a nuisance than help.

Can't say I'm too fond of the whole Phase Out thing in general...

7. Shifting arms (Passive)
Allows you to ignore 10 or so percent of physical resistances (including physical immune bosses!), when using physical attacks.
Additional points increase the ignore amount.
Every 2 points allows you to treat target's physical resistance as 1% _lower_ than it actually is -- this is applied after the first effect.

// Thus'un's pretty badass, to be honest. The point/effect ratio might need to be widened, at least. A full 100 points in this would increase your physical damage by 50%, which is pretty nasty. Shifting the reduction effect to before the ignore might tone it down a little bit. In any case, just 10 points would let you bash ghosts in the face, which is pretty awesome.

This ability is actually kind of weak. By the time ghosts becomes a serious threat, you most likely have a way to deal with them. The damages increase is very small compared to many other abilities too.

8. Unstable phase (Active, Resistable)
Curses a monster to begin losing hp. For every 5% hp they lose, they gain a point of speed.
Additional points increase duration, power, and hp loss per turn.
Every 10 points increases the HP loss threshold for speed gain (5%->6%, 6%-7%, etc.)

// I like double-edged swords like this. Speedy enemies are nasty enemies, but countering regen and inducing degen is a pretty violent ability for a character as effective in hit'n'run as the PW.

At high levels, speed starts losing it's effect. The difference between 0 and +10 is huge. The difference between +30 and +40 is difficult to notice. So basically, you curse, you escape, and you press "g" until they die. Somewhat cheap... plus, cursing goes a bit against the class' theme, I think...

9. Space splitting stride (Passive (?), Togglable)
You begin creating short-lived field effects where you step -- monsters within these fields lose 1 point of speed per turn.
Additional points increase duration of the field and speed loss.
Every 20 points allows you to gain a temporary speed boost (1 per turn per 20 points, stackable) by staying in the field. The effect degrades outside of the field, however, at the rate of 1 point per turn.

// Just a neat thing, really. It does allow you to prepare a battlefield before hand though, which can be pretty useful. That it can grant you temproary speed is just icing, imo.

It would have to be resistable though.

Also, the "Webs" spell already kind of do this.

Not that interesting of an ability I guess...

10. Phase cloud (Passive)
All your active phase abilities (perhaps all abilities, period?) now create a short-lived field effect on all squares they effect. This field replicates the effects of your phase strike ability each turn it exists. If you lack the phase strike ability, use 1/4th this ability's score, rounded down.
Each point allows the field to sustain more strikes per turn -- it starts at one, and can reach a maximum of what your phase strike can.
Every 5 or so points increases duration.
Every 30 increases radius of the field by one, beyond whatever the ability may have.

// The original PW's effectively ultimate ability was being able to create clouds -- field equivelents -- of physical attacks, that could then be frikkin' layered on top of each other, which was bloody rediculous. And wonderful, hence this. It's also probably the most other-class-synergistic, assuming the 'any ability' caveat is introduced. Still bloody violent if not, though -- the cloud has the potential to turn all of your active phase skills into damage dealing nightmares. With abilities that are as motion-centric as the PW's, that can lay waste to a pretty large area, quite quickly. Wonderful stuff, hohoho.

As you describe it, it's way too powerful.

It could be fun, however, if we limit Phase Strike to one blow. But then, it would be difficult to use and would lose a lot of it's effectiveness...



Well, I guess I didn't have much positive to say... No offense, I like the theme of the Phase Warrior too, but I think the execution needs to be reworked. Many of the abilities are either too powerful, or too weak. Phase Strike is interesting, and Phase Step, if toned down, would be nice. But most other abilities needs to be more balanced, or empowered, or possibly replaced by something else.

[Gando]

3. Remove the hp penality entirely, but the maximum distance cannot exceed the ability's level.

That sort of makes the ability pointless unless you put all your points in it...waste of space imho.

Frumple my feelings about the Furyband Phasewarrior have to do with how it was implemented and the flavoring given there. Also I never found it a viable class though to be fair it has been quite a while since I played Furyband so it could be that he improved it somewhat since then. Also for all that I played it alot and even successfully came back from the Halls of the Dead I never killed Morgoth...I guess I got bored before I got there. Kudos for thinking of ways to improve portralis...though to be honest I am still a little bitter about the amount of creative thought I put into it that was a pure waste of time. I wish you luck with this.

[Variaz]

though to be honest I am still a little bitter about the amount of creative thought I put into it that was a pure waste of time.

Don't say it was a pure waste of time, that isn't true. I know I have been somewhat critical about some of your ideas at some points, perhaps too much at times, but that wasn't meant to completely reject ideas or anything, merely to find ways of balancing them. I haven't forgotten about the stuff you suggested, such as Bard class, Marksman improvements and the Fallen reptilian race. Just because I haven't implemented them yet doesn't mean I never will. However, I cannot implement everything at once, and like you, I sometime gets tired and want to do other things, thus slowing down the process. Then when I come back, I often do so with new ideas, and they tend to take priority over the old ones... I guess I'd have to apologize about that.

Some of the things such as the Fallen and the other psionic-based race were depending on the implementation of Psionics that Sekira suggested. I was kind of expecting that he would implement the skill like he did with the Kensai, but he didn't post updates about it, so that's why I've putted the Fallen idea on hold until the Psionic skill was added, which never was... I guess I'll have to implement it in future builds.

Frumple: As I am explaining to Gando, just because I didn't say a lot of positive things doesn't mean I don't want the class to be added. I am merely pointing out things that could be improved to make the class more balanced. No personnal offense or anything.


...now that I think about it, a lot of suggestions peoples here posted have yet to be added. Maybe the next build should be about fanservice, and implementing the various suggestions and improvements. I don't like peoples feeling they're wasting their time, and I need ideas for build 008, of which everyone here posted a lot.

[Gando]

I actually thought about attempting to code the changes I wanted but I always hesitate to tread where other coders have gone because I have my own ways of doing things. So when nothing happened after a while, I assumed nothing would. :/

I do not know how Sekira operates but I disagreeumption is if you asked him directly to code the Psionic skill he would. But since he has been quiet here for a while I also assume hes busy with other things.

Personally I would love to see the Bard implemented because it is such an essential roleplaying archtype and also just a favorite of mine.

[sekira]

Nov 15, 2008 17:31:14 GMT -5 Variaz said:

...
Some of the things such as the Fallen and the other psionic-based race were depending on the implementation of Psionics that Sekira suggested. I was kind of expecting that he would implement the skill like he did with the Kensai, but he didn't post updates about it, so that's why I've putted the Fallen idea on hold until the Psionic skill was added, which never was... I guess I'll have to implement it in future builds.
...

I think my original reason for pausing on the implementation was because I thought it was the kind of thing that you could implement better and that it might need some hardcode anyway. Then I had some real life issues come up and they are still grabbing my time quite a bit, so my coding for fun has come to an abrupt halt.

Nov 15, 2008 22:35:19 GMT -5 Gando said:

I actually thought about attempting to code the changes I wanted but I always hesitate to tread where other coders have gone because I have my own ways of doing things. So when nothing happened after a while, I assumed nothing would. :/

I do not know how Sekira operates but I disagreeumption is if you asked him directly to code the Psionic skill he would. But since he has been quiet here for a while I also assume hes busy with other things.

Personally I would love to see the Bard implemented because it is such an essential roleplaying archtype and also just a favorite of mine.

If asked directly I'd have to say it will have to wait for now. If and when I do have time to code for portralis, I would like to implement the psionics skill, and maybe a psionicist class, but I would also like to see the bard implemented too.

I always thought that all the bard abilities would be like passive field effects, you just have to choose which one is on at any given time... maybe some of the abilities would let the bard get multiple effects from a single passive field (adding in a harmony to a melody that you already know, so it adds in a secondary effect)

as far as the phase warrior (you know, the original point of this thread before I hijacked it)...

I have two points of view on it.

on a personal level, I like some of the ideas, but I think maybe this is a little too specialized. It didn't really make me sit up and say, "wow, thats so cool, I can't wait to play that class!" Of course that is just a personal opinion.

As far as encouraging the overall development of the game, I would say go for it. Don't get overly attached to any particular ability, as long as you can maintain the central theme. Listen to feedback and get ideas about balancing things before you even start. I'm assuming you are going to try to implement the class yourself, which I think is the best way to get something done that you want done... do it yourself. If you are hoping someone else will step in and code it after you have worked out the concept here, well, maybe you can convince V, but I just don't have the time right now.