New class - Minstrel

[T10]

There is a scheme of a new, peace-oriented class.
Please forgive me for the laxity of my words - I barely bear the beautiful language of the Kingdom.

BASE CLASS: MINSTREL
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Minstrel - wanderer of roads and hearts.
She was everywhere; she knows a fiddle-faddle about everything and always has some news and a good story. People gladly listen to her far-from tales and songs. Master of songs and words. No one knows the love and the needs of the soul better as like as her.
She can find the proper voice with anybody. Anyone else fight for death - she makes friends and changes whole lives. Wither she roams monsters leave off raiding villages and bandits change their swords to plowshares.

charisma: +25 %
leadership: +15%
stealth: +10%
Immune to paralysis.
Improved chance to find hidden things (doors, traps and the like) depends on class level.
Gets class kills counter and experience for every befriended monster as like as they were killed. Gets nothing for once-friendly monsters!

CLASS ABILITIES
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1. Appealing face (Passive, level 1)

Effect: Increases your charisma by 5%
Extra points: +5% additional charisma bonus

Minstrel's most important stat is charisma. This ability gives you some of it.


2. Pet of wights/beyaches (Passive, level 1)

Effect: Humanoid monsters of the opposite sex don't attack you - similar as like as you are become invisible.
Effect strength: charisma
Extra points: +20% to effect's strength

Men/women are crazy for you. Not become friendly but don't attack you - don't want to make flat your charming face. The effect is similar to invisibility. Everyone who falls under influence of your charismatic power will not attack you.


3. Ever-lasting friendship (Active, level 1)

Effect: Targeted friendly monster becomes your follower.
Extra points: You can lead one more follower for every point.

Your friends are waiting for your call to follow you either to the hell and back. By this ability, you can lead followers to battle and merriment. Followers never leave you, but you can lead only one for every point in this ability - over this limit, you must release one to call another.
(In all other ways ability works like the old hire/befriend command)


4. A little bit about everything - monsters (Passive, level 1)

Effect: You can gain all about a monster you meet, and can act more effective against well-known monsters. Bonus to opposite rolls against perfectly-known monsters: +10
Can be resisted: Yes
Extra points: Greater chance to gain all about a monster, +10 bonus to opposite rolls.

Knowledge is power. You heard a bit about nearly everything and have a chance to recognize the truth in the rumors. Every time you discover a new thing about a monster you have a chance to learn everything about it. To do it you must win an opposite roll with the level of this ability against the monster's original level. Every time you make an opposite roll against a monster perfectly known you gain a bonus to your roll 10*ability level.


5. Master of debauchery (Active, level 1)

Effect: Targeted monster becomes friendly toward you
Can be resisted: Yes (Except monster's hp under 5%)
Extra points: Improved chance to befriend, +2% to hp limit (Up to the maximum at 45%)

You are master of words and souls. By this ability you can persuade a monster to fight on your side. Monsters resist with their level + mind, but you gain your charisma to your roll against humanoid monsters from opposite sex.
Another way you can offer mercy to the defeated ones, and they will serve you for their lives. When a monster's hp gone below 5%+2%*ability level up to 45%, there is no saving throw.


6. Attentive friend (Passive, level 1)

Effect: Area-effect spells and abilities of you and your friends don't hurt friendly creatures.
Radius: 6
Extra points: +2 to radius

You are always show attention to your friends and demanded the same to them. Area-effect spells and effects launched by you or your friends - as like as balls, auras and chains - don't hurt friendly creatures around you.


7. Heartening song (Active level 6)

Effect: Friendly creatures' level increased by 5% of your charisma. (Only once per creature)
Radius: 6
Extra points: +5% to level bonus, +1 radius for every 3 points

Your fierce war-march encourages your friends around you. They gain a bonus to their level equal (5%*ability level) of your charisma. Every creature could gain this bonus only once.


8. A little bit about everything - places (Active, level 6)

Effect: You can cover a great distance within a short time.
Extra points: +2 to distance.

As a skilled wanderer you able to take a short cut almost everywhere. By the use of this ability you must give a coordinate of a place in a distance up to 2/ability level. Next time you will change place you will be arrived there. You can't use this ability for 500 turns after it. Ability works only outdoors.


9. Business acumen (Active, level 6)

Effect: You can argue for items with friendly monsters, with a 50% bonus to your charisma.
Extra points: +20% to charisma modifier

You can make correct barters with friendly creatures. Targeted monster will tell you an item he has (if any) and a price for it. If you say yes and have the money the bargain will be made.
Your charisma counted 50%+20%/extra points higher to determine the price.


10. Words of peace (Active, level 10)

Effect: Found a small village from a dungeon.
Extra points: Greater rewards for the transformation, stronger monsters in the village, stronger ingredients in the shop.

You can bring peace into the wilderness. Every time you defeat a dungeon master, you could choose to let him live and show him the benefits of peaceful life. After it, there will be a small village in this place instead of a dungeon. A village full of friendly monsters, and a single central house, owned by the once-were dungeon master. This house is a small shop, buy and sell only ingredients. Maximum level of them depends on the level of this ability - ability level * 20. You will gain xp and class kill counter for the foundation of the village depends on the level of this ability.
(Technically: The village is a standard small, village-type one-level dungeon. Dungeon level is equal of character level + ability level*2. All of the monsters are friendly. In the middle is a small shop, full of ingredients as written above. Shopkeeper is the defeated dungeon master.
Minstrel gains ability level*1 class kill counter and ability level*10 xp for the foundation, and instantly teleports to the surface.)

[Variaz]

Here's my comments:

charisma: +25 %
leadership: +15%
stealth: +10%
Immune to paralysis.

Why paralysis immunity?

Maybe I'd give them something like this instead:

Charisma: +33%
Leadership: +25%

Since none of their abilities are about stealth, I wouldn't give them stealth bonus.

1. Appealing face (Passive, level 1)

Effect: Increases your charisma by 5%
Extra points: +5% additional charisma bonus

Minstrel's most important stat is charisma. This ability gives you some of it.

I thought it already existed, but was wrong... Well, it's a standard stat booster. Nothing to say here.

2. Pet of wights/beyaches (Passive, level 1)

Effect: Humanoid monsters of the opposite sex don't attack you - similar as like as you are become invisible.
Effect strength: charisma
Extra points: +20% to effect's strength

Men/women are crazy for you. Not become friendly but don't attack you - don't want to make flat your charming face. The effect is similar to invisibility. Everyone who falls under influence of your charismatic power will not attack you.

I don't really like this one. Stealth does exactly that, but with everything. I am sure that Stealth isn't a commonly raised skill, but it's very effective if you do raise it. This ability is also too specific to be really useful.

Plus, I'm not sure why you called it "Pet of Wights". Undead wights aren't exactly the prettiest things...

Try increasing Stealth a bit in your next build. It's good. Even better with a ranged weapon.

3. Ever-lasting friendship (Active, level 1)

Effect: Targeted friendly monster becomes your follower.
Extra points: You can lead one more follower for every point.

Your friends are waiting for your call to follow you either to the hell and back. By this ability, you can lead followers to battle and merriment. Followers never leave you, but you can lead only one for every point in this ability - over this limit, you must release one to call another.
(In all other ways ability works like the old hire/befriend command)

Easily abusable. Summon Specific a really really powerful monster, even for just 1 turn, and use this on it. There would have to be a limit on the max level you can use this on, and perhaps not on summoned monsters at all. And the limit would have to be less than 1 per points.

Another problem is that some monsters are really tough to kill for the other monsters, such as Restless Dead. They are rather expensive to summon, but with this, you could have your army of them. I won't even get into how broken a Simulacrum Imp of Greed would be with this...

4. A little bit about everything - monsters (Passive, level 1)

Effect: You can gain all about a monster you meet, and can act more effective against well-known monsters. Bonus to opposite rolls against perfectly-known monsters: +10
Can be resisted: Yes
Extra points: Greater chance to gain all about a monster, +10 bonus to opposite rolls.

Knowledge is power. You heard a bit about nearly everything and have a chance to recognize the truth in the rumors. Every time you discover a new thing about a monster you have a chance to learn everything about it. To do it you must win an opposite roll with the level of this ability against the monster's original level. Every time you make an opposite roll against a monster perfectly known you gain a bonus to your roll 10*ability level.

No offense, but this is a really useless ability.

Monster Mage already knows more than other classes as a class bonus. For the stats, you have Scan Monster, which is cheap. As for the resistances, they are often pretty obvious. That leaves you with the attacks, but if you need them to actually perform their moves to know them all, well, it's not really useful.

Finally, for something so weak, you have to place a couple of points in it, as power 10 is nothing too spectacular.

5. Master of debauchery (Active, level 1)

Effect: Targeted monster becomes friendly toward you
Can be resisted: Yes (Except monster's hp under 5%)
Extra points: Improved chance to befriend, +2% to hp limit (Up to the maximum at 45%)

You are master of words and souls. By this ability you can persuade a monster to fight on your side. Monsters resist with their level + mind, but you gain your charisma to your roll against humanoid monsters from opposite sex.
Another way you can offer mercy to the defeated ones, and they will serve you for their lives. When a monster's hp gone below 5%+2%*ability level up to 45%, there is no saving throw.

Kind of like Dominate Monster. Perhaps a bit better. But otherwise, pretty much the same thing. Although even weakened, it doesn't really make sense that anything would join you. Especially a warrior humanoid enemy, who would likely prefer to die in battle rather than serve you!

Otherwise, it's too similar to Dominate Monsters. We'd have to make something a bit more different.

6. Attentive friend (Passive, level 1)

Effect: Area-effect spells and abilities of you and your friends don't hurt friendly creatures.
Radius: 6
Extra points: +2 to radius

You are always show attention to your friends and demanded the same to them. Area-effect spells and effects launched by you or your friends - as like as balls, auras and chains - don't hurt friendly creatures around you.

Only useful for premanent friends, and then, they probably have more than enough hp to witstand attacks from other friendly monsters.

Not very useful overall, especially if you have a theme in mind for your army(like undead army, elemental army, etc...). Though you would really only need 1 point.

7. Heartening song (Active level 6)

Effect: Friendly creatures' level increased by 5% of your charisma. (Only once per creature)
Radius: 6
Extra points: +5% to level bonus, +1 radius for every 3 points

Your fierce war-march encourages your friends around you. They gain a bonus to their level equal (5%*ability level) of your charisma. Every creature could gain this bonus only once.

Pretty good one. With enough levelables/crafted charisma-boosting items, this could become powerful later on.

8. A little bit about everything - places (Active, level 6)

Effect: You can cover a great distance within a short time.
Extra points: +2 to distance.

As a skilled wanderer you able to take a short cut almost everywhere. By the use of this ability you must give a coordinate of a place in a distance up to 2/ability level. Next time you will change place you will be arrived there. You can't use this ability for 500 turns after it. Ability works only outdoors.

Arg! Sorry, but this is even more useless than ability #4.

It actually takes less than 500 turns to cross one screen(they're about 192 or 196 wide, and 66 tall). There is a transportation network(that now works!) between the major kingdoms. It doesn't really help you find new hidden places, and it makes it harder when you DO find them because this ability does nothing good.

9. Business acumen (Active, level 6)

Effect: You can argue for items with friendly monsters, with a 50% bonus to your charisma.
Extra points: +20% to charisma modifier

You can make correct barters with friendly creatures. Targeted monster will tell you an item he has (if any) and a price for it. If you say yes and have the money the bargain will be made.
Your charisma counted 50%+20%/extra points higher to determine the price.

Most of the good items are carried by elites and bosses, which wouldn't be your friends. Summoned monsters don't have items. The use of this ability is extremely limited.

10. Words of peace (Active, level 10)

Effect: Found a small village from a dungeon.
Extra points: Greater rewards for the transformation, stronger monsters in the village, stronger ingredients in the shop.

You can bring peace into the wilderness. Every time you defeat a dungeon master, you could choose to let him live and show him the benefits of peaceful life. After it, there will be a small village in this place instead of a dungeon. A village full of friendly monsters, and a single central house, owned by the once-were dungeon master. This house is a small shop, buy and sell only ingredients. Maximum level of them depends on the level of this ability - ability level * 20. You will gain xp and class kill counter for the foundation of the village depends on the level of this ability.
(Technically: The village is a standard small, village-type one-level dungeon. Dungeon level is equal of character level + ability level*2. All of the monsters are friendly. In the middle is a small shop, full of ingredients as written above. Shopkeeper is the defeated dungeon master.
Minstrel gains ability level*1 class kill counter and ability level*10 xp for the foundation, and instantly teleports to the surface.)

Look... I know you're a peaceful person and all, but... isn't it pushing it a bit far?

Besides, it would be a PAIN to code, and by that, I mean recoding the shops code, then writing a special town generation code, then remembering the dungeon's boss... All for something that's not that useful, and kind of weird...


MY FINAL VERDICT:

Don't get me wrong, I love bards, and I appreciate that you took the time to post your idea. But I really don't like this class. Especially abilities 4, 8 and 10(10 did give me a good laugh though. ).

Most of these abilities have been done before, are abusable, or are simply not worth it(and number 10 is just too silly! ;D). The sole exception is Heartening Song, which really goes well with a Bard/Minstrel class, and it's effect is very good.

You originally gave the class the Stealth bonus, and I think some abilities based on Stealth would have been useful. And perhaps some magic-related abilities would be nice. (remember, we have a Sound element! I'm sure Bards would like to use it!)

[T10]

I have only moments to reflect but I try.

I fully forget about sound. It may be the proper attack form for the minstrel:)

Ability 6. Attentive friend
By my opinion this ability solves an old problem for summoning and other minion-based acts.
Friendly monsters turns against you every time they got a damage from you, from a friendly monster or a bouced spell or effect.
But what do you think the new version:

6. Attentive friend (Passive, level 1)

Effect: Area-effect spells and abilities of you and your friends don't hurt friendly creatures, and they help each other in battle.
Bonus: +3% to_hit, to_dam, to_ac and spell damage for and to every friendly creature in the dungeon level
Extra points: +3% to_hit, to_dam, to_ac and spell damage

You are always show attention to your friends and demanded the same to them. Area-effect spells and effects launched by you or your friends - as like as balls, auras and chains - don't hurt friendly creatures around you, and every one of them helps the others to fight and survive.

(For example you have 1 ability level and 10 friendly creatures around you. Every creature will gain 30% bonus to his/her fighting abilities. At ability level 10 bonus increases to 300%)

2. Pet of wights/beyaches
Yes, I choose the word wights because of its multiple meanings:)
All right, let's forget this one. Luckily I need the space for sound-based abilities:)
I already have some great ideas;)

Now I haven't more time.
To be continued...

[T10]

You wrote:
*****
No offense, but this is a really useless ability.

Monster Mage already knows more than other classes as a class bonus. For the stats, you have Scan Monster, which is cheap. As for the resistances, they are often pretty obvious. That leaves you with the attacks, but if you need them to actually perform their moves to know them all, well, it's not really useful.

Finally, for something so weak, you have to place a couple of points in it, as power 10 is nothing too spectacular.
*****

At ability level 10 you gain a +100 bonus all of your saving throws, and gain the same bonus against monsters' saving throws.
Affects spells and abilities as like dominate monster, capture soul, harm, reduce level, unevolve... and monster attacks like experience draining or paralyze.
This is far from the thing I call useless.

But I created a more usable version:

4. A little bit about everything - monsters (Passive, level 1)

Effect: You can gain all about a monster you meet, and can act more effective against well-known monsters. Bonus to opposite rolls against perfectly-known monsters: +10
Chance of piercing defense: 15%
Can be resisted: Yes (knowledge-gathering only)
Extra points: Greater chance to gain all about a monster, +10 bonus to opposite rolls, +5% piercing power up to 85%

Knowledge is power. You heard a bit about nearly everything and have a chance to recognize the truth in the rumors. Every time you discover a new thing about a monster you have a chance to learn everything about it. To do it you must win an opposite roll with the level of this ability against the monster's original level.
Every time you make an opposite roll against a monster perfectly known you gain a bonus to your roll 10*ability level.
In addition, you know every weak point in the monster's defense and you can pierce it with your attacks. Every time one of your attacks or spells reduced or stopped by the monster's special abilities, you have a chance to break through and your attack or spell works on full affectivity. The chance is 15%+5% / extra points up to 85%

[Gando]

I too am a big fan of bards (check out my email address if you doubt me but I couldn't find very much bard like about this class and not much musical either.

Variaz I disagree with your assessment of Attentive Friend...what I dont like about it is that it has nothing to do with storytelling, performance or just music. The ability itself is quite useful and makes sense for someone who is a monster tamer. And thats what this class REALLY is (not a bard) a Monster Tamer.

T10, I too didnt get the meaning of ability #2...did you mean wight as in the Isle of Wight in England? The word in old english is not a complimentary word even taking away the undead meaning. A wight in its most positive is just some poor working drudge...in its more negative connotations it means an assassin, someone who lurks in the shadows, steals from the poor etc.

My overall comment on the idea ~ I too would love to see a well phrased/shaped Bard type character (called that because the name rules ) And a peacemaking Bard is not a bad idea.
The execution of this is bad though and ironically (I know english is not your native tongue so dont take this the wrong way) the spelling and grammar mistakes are enough to cause confusion in many of the descriptions. (Ironic because Bards would not have this problem in general being known as polyglots.)

Do not give up on the idea but try and shape it to more of a theme relating to music, storytelling, public speaking, news gathering.

The bards of old, were renowned for their ability to educate as well as entertain. They were some of the few non-nobles who could read reliably other than scribes, scholars and monks. They travelled extensively and were often observers of wars and negotiated for lords when a peace was desired.

In a small village theyd be welcomed with open arms but all but the most surly oaf. Their presence meant a break from the day's chores to catch up on the last month or two of news from abroad, a couple nights of festive entertainment and a few days of schooling for the few children too young for the fields or apprenticeships.

They could indeed be peace makers who led otherwise terribly monsters to a better life (The Pied Piper for example, though that didnt turn out so well .

My recommendation for abilities:

Forget stealth completely even though there could be some useful stealth abilities they do not really fit the theme. (Except in the D&D sense of the profession which combines rogue with minstrel and mage to make a mishmosh class)

Focus on the charisma stat to do much of the work for other abilities so keep #1 (but please rename it to something that makes more sense: such as "Eye of the Beholder."

keep Heartening song as is.

Add:
Song of Redemption ~ Converts nearby weak (hpwise) enemies into gold or something (see the pun?). The amount will be some percentage of monster level * charisma divided by some constant to make the ability not too broken but worth putting points into. This represents the mobs paying the hat and then leaving the vicinity to turn over new leaves somewhere else. (of course this excludes summoned mobs and spawned mobs)

Story Circle of Healing ~ Heals ALL monsters (and the bard) friendly or otherwise in a short radius that increases with points. The amount healed is based on your charisma...the healing stuns enemy monsters for a turn or two.

Story Circle of Woe ~ This dire tale causes its listeners to shrivel up inside a little bit. Lowers enemy to_hit, to_dam, ac, and current hit points by 3% + some amount based on charisma. The radius increases with points.

Song of the Pied Piper ~ This works on all monsters in hearing range (who fail a save) luring them to you from anywhere. The duration of the song effect is based on charisma and the monsters will not be able to attack/cast or shoot at you for the duration but they will follow your every move at their best speed. If you attack any monster under the influence of the song it breaks the effect for all.

Waltz of the Marsupial ~ this little hymn in 6/3 time inspires the bard to move faster and jump instead of walk in whatever direction he or she points. (Just like a kangaroo. The mechanics of this are that the player will automatically jump as far as they can when the arrow keys are pressed for the duration of the effect. In addition the bard gains a + 10% to martial arts while influenced by this. (Kangaroos can fight right? lol)

Lore ~ As T10 was pointing to, bards tend to know a lot. This passive ability gives them insight into every aspect of their lives. For every point in this they gain a +% to int/wis based on their charisma. At higher levels this may allow them to be powerful casters if they cross class to gain the prequisite abilities from a caster class. This ability also allows them to ascertain the value of items in their possession without iding them.

Lesson in Attentiveness (Modified 'Attentive Friend') ~ This passive ability shields your pets friend harm whether by you or other effects. This shielding effect is limited to a range based on your charisma. It completely negates area effect attacks by you or other pets in terms of damaging the pets. (It doesnt protect you though) It is also protects your pets from harm from other sources based on your charisma.

Voice of the Trained Singer ~ (active) a ranged attack that works in a cone area originating with you, with the sonic element. The damage will be based on the ability level + charisma + your elemental school skill. The range increases with ability.

Sotto Vocé ~ (active) recalls your pets to your current location in a dungeon, incase you get separated. This ability might seem weak but the ability to rescue far flung pets who are in danger of dying seems valueable to me particularly if YOU need help.

Hope these ideas help a bit.

[Gando]

Note: Combine the Story Circle abilities into Story Circle of Weal and Woe. All get first effect...enemies get second)

[Variaz]

The reason why I didn't like Attentive Friend is because unless you target a monster with your own attacks, they are NOT supposed to turn hostile otherwise. I hear stories of monsters turning hostile by bouncing attacks, attacks from enemies, etc... (I have yet to confirm this). But if it's really the case, then it should NOT be, and it's a bug/oversight/unique feature.

And putting a point into it to allow you to blast your friends with impunity goes a bit against the concept of the class.

Gando did post many good ideas that could make the class pretty good and not stray too far from your original concept. I especially like Lore, as it's a great ability for characters who wish to use the Conjuration school to summon monsters.

Think about it, then post a new version of it, and if it's good, it may be implemented.

[T10]

*****
T10, I too didnt get the meaning of ability #2...did you mean wight as in the Isle of Wight in England? The word in old english is not a complimentary word even taking away the undead meaning. A wight in its most positive is just some poor working drudge...in its more negative connotations it means an assassin, someone who lurks in the shadows, steals from the poor etc.
*****

My original conception was: the favorite and most liked person of bad men/bad women.
I used a dictionary and choosed a less-used werb I thought proper to reflects my mind.
That's all.

[Gando]

Jul 24, 2008 1:39:15 GMT -5 T10 said:

*****
T10, I too didnt get the meaning of ability #2...did you mean wight as in the Isle of Wight in England? The word in old english is not a complimentary word even taking away the undead meaning. A wight in its most positive is just some poor working drudge...in its more negative connotations it means an assassin, someone who lurks in the shadows, steals from the poor etc.
*****

My original conception was: the favorite and most liked person of bad men/bad women.
I used a dictionary and choosed a less-used werb I thought proper to reflects my mind.
That's all.

Being well versed in English, I find it difficult to believe you found a credible dictionary that had that as the definition for "Wight". Perhaps you found it in a slang dictionary?

But even so you will never hear a disreputable sort say "Oye dat fella, 'e's a right good wight, 'e is..." His fellow disreputables would stare at him and think he's gone off the deep end.

Wight is a pejorative no matter how you color it.