Glyph-blades, Glyph-Knights

[divinefistoka]

Class or item idea, possibly both. I coined the idea whilst playing another *band, but no-ones done anything like it. I tote around lots of weapons for different situations. A fire weapon, an undead slayer, a unique-slayer, etc. This gets very old rather fast, having to constantly be weighed down by the spares, so i came up with the idea of a glyph knight. He would form his weapon through intense meditation upon a specific glyph, and by focusing on a different glyph, his weapon would change form, as well as enchantment. Wouldn't necessarily have to be a sword, though that was what i first thought of it as, but you could do this as a class, and each of his abilities would be a focus on a specific glyph, each of which endowed a weapon with specfic dice and enchantments. Could have a 'slaying sword' with brands for orc, ogre, etc, another sword for elemental damage, another that could increase stealth and be poisoned, one which could spread its blows in a radius (As in high level demon blade spells from Tome) over several enemies. Could give them activations and whatnot to balance. When you need to change the use of the weapon, you spend several turns meditating upon it's glyph (like the charge-up moves) upon which the old benefits are gone, and those of the new glyph are active. Could change freely, given time, making this a class for a tactician who likes to take advantage of different weapons or enchantments in different situations. If done as a class however, each ability for the class would be one weapon, and would get stronger with more skill points, so the class would likely have to focus on only a few, with the higher-level abilities (the 7, 8, 9, and 10th ones) probably being an overall boost, like shortening meditation time, or helping the to hit on all forms. Higher skill levels in the first six (which would be the actual weapon-forms) would grant that form additional brands and enchantments. Would make a very interesting mage-warrior class i think. And the glyph-weapons could always be done by themselves, and finding the assorted glyphs in the dungeon would allow you to add another form to your weapon... and then one death takes all of them from you. (Making them risky to rely on in the late game.) Though if this is done as a class, there weapons should be drawn directly from the ability set, independent of your inventory, thus once activated you can always have that weapon available (kinda like an enduring conjure item. Stays until you remove it (a U power maybe) or alter it to another version. So you could always use a regular weapon instead, albeit with no benefits. Mp cost might be a possibility as well. And weapons could grant activations at high skill levels, for free spells.

Just a thought, haven't developed the idea much yet. Would be nice to see, since i love classes that force you to use your tactical mind, rather then relying on brute strength (or brute mind-power).

[Variaz]

Interesting ideas here! Creating your own weapons through magic/glyphs sounds really interesting!

But now, it's the execution we must discuss. Creating a weapon from scratch is cool, but not if it's going to cost all our AP. So a class may not be the way to go.

A "cross-skill" feat? This is kind of like a mix of Crafting and Conjuration. If you raise both skills, it allows you to create your own equipment from nothing. (why limit ourselves to weapons? ). Adding points to other skills could also bring benefits, such as changing the base damages types and adding brands if you have high Elemental skill, etc...

Definitly something to discuss though. Thanks for bringing it up!

[divinefistoka]

Well, I don't know about 'from scratch'. I didn't think of there weapons as being a physical thing, more an embodiment of the glyph itself, and since the glyph is the product of the magic... you couldn't well take it away. But i also didn't want an eternally consumed inventory slot we can never use again. As for creating it, that's not QUITE what i had in mind, rather they are forming it. The powers of the glyphs would be preset, the abilities (or any other way of doing it) simply represent your ability to draw on that particular glyph. While forming the weapon can be done with 1 skill point alone, with just one the weapon isn't very powerful. With 5 you might get some extra slays, with 10, an activation, etc... Keep in mind also, that due to the power this kind of class would offer, the ability scores required would either need to be rather lower then normal, or it would require a player to conserve there AP until they can acquire this (obviously) advanced class.

If you went the equipment route, anyone could use them, for instance, one could find an 'empty glyph-stone', an item useless by itself, and by finding a parchment with a glyph on it, we could study it to add it to our glyph-stone. At which point we can draw on that glyphs powers to form a weapon, with it's enchantments. If we find more glyphs, we can add more forms that we can switch between at will. (U power maybe? Only available while weapon equipped (So it could be separate from activations.)

If you went that route, you might also think of 'powering up' the glyphs by finding a second copy of one you have. By adding it to the stone, the glyph becomes stronger then before, offers more benefits, etc...

Both have some possibilitys I think.

As for skills, i dunno about crafting, since thats a skill that i think a lot of people avoid, since it provides zero combat help, it detracts from the overall potential of the character. So they might be able to make a strong weapon, but if they can't devote the skill points to fight correctly with it because they pumped crafting, then it's worthless to them. Ditto for the alchemy skill, but thats just my opinion, and using crafting in conjuction with another skill would indeed add an element of challenge to them, but i feel there ought to be a better way, since if you go the route of glyph-weapons rather then just glyph-blades, then you also have to consider what form they will take (sword, hafted, etc) thus requiring multiple weapon-skill mastery. Which is also a potentially expensive thing. If you go the class route, that can be avoided since characters can plan to use a weapon type and choose it when they start the class (like element-warrior picks his element, they choose sword, hafted, polearm, etc.) and all there variants of the weapon take the form of swords, or hafteds, or polearms. That would limit the skills needed, though again, ability points are a problem. Keep in mind also, taht with a class you're probably limiting things to 6 forms, plus 4 abilities that enhance the ability to fight with all. (Like to hit pluses, to dam pluses, ac bonuses (parrying/protection), speedier changes from form to form, etc.) If the class route is gone, any two characters could go different directions with it. Which again, provides that tactical flexibilty and replay value that so makes a game enjoyable.

BTW, since I doubt I'll be around to follow up on this after a few days (let's hear it for vacations with internet access) feel free to use and modify the idea without my input. (Not that you really need permission, other then to ease a conscious)

[Variaz]

i dunno about crafting, since thats a skill that i think a lot of people avoid, since it provides zero combat help, it detracts from the overall potential of the character.

Please, download Portralis 0.3. This saying is FAR from accurate now. And I mean FAR.

[divinefistoka]

I'll have to try, though i think i had portralis 0.2.something (assumed the older one was last stable build, didn't wanna get a beta that couldn't be finished, newangband 180 (Original portralis) still pissed me off to end there.

However the dual-skill does sound like a sound idea, just keep in mind that what i was envisioning wasn't a 30-turn weapon, or so like conjured items were, they stayed until you removed them, but took extensive time to call forth and dismiss, several turns for the weaker stuff, and maybe as many as 30-50 turns for big powerful stuff. Just idle numbers to toss around, plus i did mention maybe speeding it up with higher skill levels. What about the idea for the equipment variant of glyph-weapons? Would rely on you to find a stone, and then find glyphs to add to empower it, (i envision the glyph being a sort of shifting-3 dimension rune, and the stone in which it focuses, as becoming a pommel stone on the weapon, thus forming the weapon from that.

Again, i feel time should be taken (several turns) to switch forms, though maybe not as excessive if there's no class to speed it up.

[Gando]

Crafting is almighty It gives combat bonuses and potentially the equipment you make with it as an Enchanter can be the best the game can offer. (Note the word potentially here as it takes an immense amount of points to make this happen.) It isnt the end all and be all of Portralis but it is definitely one way to go if you want a powerful build. The downside is the heavy investment of skill and ability and stats into a narrow selection.

[divinefistoka]

Just took a look at the most recent build, and saw the enchanters ability to use crafting skill in place of fighting skill. That might make glyph blades a good example of dual-skill between crafting and some sort of magic. Dunno about conjuration though. Technically they're only drawing on what already exists. Maybe spellcasting? Not that theres a huge difference really, I'm just anal i suppose.

[divinefistoka]

May 23, 2008 18:23:46 GMT -5 Variaz said:

Interesting ideas here! Creating your own weapons through magic/glyphs sounds really interesting!

But now, it's the execution we must discuss. Creating a weapon from scratch is cool, but not if it's going to cost all our AP. So a class may not be the way to go.

A "cross-skill" feat? This is kind of like a mix of Crafting and Conjuration. If you raise both skills, it allows you to create your own equipment from nothing. (why limit ourselves to weapons? ). Adding points to other skills could also bring benefits, such as changing the base damages types and adding brands if you have high Elemental skill, etc...

Definitly something to discuss though. Thanks for bringing it up!

Alright I've been doing some thinking, and have suggested two routes, items (possibly in conjunction with a skill, though how many and which ones would indeed be left up to Variaz) and a class, drawing from abilities. I've suggested multiple weapon types in the assorted forms to be acquired, and feel that would be balancing to the item method, whereas making them all one type would be most balancing to a class. I've said little about possible forms, and I will now try to show some of what I am trying to envision.

Please forgive me if I have no name yet or a really bad name.
If I refer to 'enhancements' treat it as either more AP if done as a class, though since it would probably be a late-game class, costs might need to be lower then for things like fighter or priest, or as extra glyphs or in the case of the item. (or skill related) option.

Elemental - Probably the weakest and easiest that should be acquired, an elemental form, not single element forever like the elementlord abilities mind you. Should probably start off with a weak and fairly common elemental like fire. Additional enhancements would provide more elements until you end up with a weapon that can take advantage of any chink your enemies might provide you. Since in the late game, a lot of creatures will start to resist more elements, this would gradually become less useful, but would be very nice at first. A fairly low-level form, though with work even it could be worthwhile. I though about activations as well and came up with a fairly weak one, a random ball of element, radius to increase with enhancement. A randomly chosen element shouldn't be too hard to code into a ball spell either. Could be useful, could be bad. sort of a gamble. Probably needs more work, but gives an idea what I'm looking into. Time to shift into it should be a few turns, but not an extreme number... 5-15 maybe?

'slaying' - Like the above, but EVENTUALLY more useful, but potentially less damage. Only real difference is that instaed of elements it would come down with assorted slays. From orc, to dragon, evil, good, etc, gaining them as it is improved. Should be significantly rarer then the above, however, since enemies cant learn to resist slays. Though I think elemental multipliers might be larger then the multipliers from slays... (Confirmation anyone?) No matter, this one should still be rarer and harder to acquire. 20-35 turns to shift?

Assassination - A unique form, designed for very low damage dice (but still heavy, so its not like a dagger, just has lower dice then other forms. I actually think they should all weigh the same, neither excessive nor light. At least, if they sit in one weapon type they should.) but making up for it with its enchantments. Would offer bonuses to stealth (improving with the sword), eventually poison brand, speed bonuses (again, improving with the weapon), invisibility, and eventually, I think, monster detection. Do you get the theme yet? Tools of an assassin. Move fast (speed), move silent (stealth), don't be seen (invisible), know where your enemies are (detection), and strike hard into there backs like crazy. Its a tool for assassinations, to let you get the drop on your enemies. Because of the enchantments offered and the potential of ambushing a unaware enemy (which I believe still offers damage bonuses, like backstabbing, confirmation anyone? Seldom play stealthy characters so I don't know.) the innate damage dice of the weapon would be lower then other weapons, though still heavy, so it doesn't offer lots of blows like a dagger. Note that just because the base dice are lower then other forms, doesn't mean it would have bad +'s to Hit and damage. It's meant for an assassinations, not for brawling. Should be of medium rarity, with Invisibility and ESP being the last of its powers, being they are the most powerful. 30-35 turns to shift? (since it's meant to be used in stealth, time isn't much of an issue)

Mage-friend - Offers Int boost, which grows with the form, offers some extra mana percentage (grows with the form), eventually begins offering bonuses to the spell-schools, and at its highest levels, begins offering the wielder protection from hostile magic (reflection). Maybe a magic-defense boost would be better, I dunno. I also thought about a LONG (couple thousand turns between activations, to be used mostly as a desperation 'save-your-life' maneuver) recharge activation for restoring mana. 20-40 turns to shift.

Berserker's Wrath - Again, ought to be obvious. Str boost (grows with the form), Con boost (Grows with the form, but slower.), AC bonuses (grows with the form, doesn't show up at all till after the earlier powers), and at it's highest levels, could be activated for berserk. For all those people who love to wade into the thick of a huge throng and slay everything around them. Might also consider including things like resist fear, confusion, etc, since your so crazy you wouldn't notice how scary an enemy is, how distorted the room suddenly looks, what all those pretty images (hallucination) are, etc. 35-60 turns to shift.

Wrath of the earth - This is a weird one, dunno if it should be included. It would be very strange as a melee weapon, and i didn't envision it as a sword. I saw it as a bigass warhammer, which shattered the stone around it, for an radius explosion around where it struck. One could strike an enemy with enough force to shatter part of the ground they're standing on to do physical damage to everything withing radius 1 (the target plus each tile around it) or 2. Could increase radius with the form, but I dunno how far it should go, not very or it'd be overbalancing. Effectively you'd be able to attack a group of enemies at once with physical melee damage. Maybe cause cuts from sharp stone? High levels offer earthquake activation? (long recharge). Definitely needs more work, and would be hideously powerful in the right hands. "Summons? What summons? (SMASH)" I thought about doing Str bonuses here instead of the berserk weapon, but this one is strong enough on its own. Definitely needs to be refined, but its something to think about. This form if it exists should be hideously heavy. No 16 blows on a radius 4 area, lets keep godly power where it belongs, away from mortals. 2 or 3 might be acceptable, so it should be REALLY heavy. Should definitely have a heavy shift-time. 50-90?

And so you see where I was going with all this now. These are just ideas, and likely, all need refinement. I had first envisioned this as a class, and the last abilities would be for improve base damage (improves the dice of all forms, but no new enchantments), improve enchantment (improves the +'s of all forms, but no new enchantments), and High-focus. (reduce the change-time between forms.) As you devote AP to a weapon form it gained new powers, improved its pluses, and base dice, though not as much as the latter abilities would be. High-focus would be a class level 10 abilty, the previous 2 (improve pluses, and improve dice) as well as the radius weapon would be class level 6 abilities, but planning would be required to make sure too much AP wasn't taken up. The other thing i thought about was the glyphstones which would become the pommelstone of the weapon, and hold the glyphs for the weapons. Worthless by itself until you find a glyph (of the above types) one unlocks the form with its first power, at its weakest. Additional different glyphs offer different forms you can freely change between (in a certain number of turns, without being disturbed, which (I think) ought to stop the counter and force you to start again. (exception: a class with high-focus should stand a chance of not losing focus, as well as being able to change quicker). Keep in mind as well this was meant to provide strategy, you aren't supposed to switch in the middle of a firefight, you're supposed to shift ahead of time so you are perfectly prepared for the upcoming events. Getting back to glyphstones, additional copies of a glyph already in the stone would improve the enchantments (powers), +'s, and base dice of that form. (base dice would only improve small amounts after multiple glyphs, capped at a certain form... ditto for pluses.) Maybe 4 or 5 'versions' of each form, if done as items, so 5 glyphs of a kind would max your ability with the form, and each 'version' (additional glyph) would have slightly better dice and +'s.

There are some of the thoughts I came up with. enjoy, and refine as needed. Keep in mind this is meant to be a powerful advanced class, and would take time to get into, or very hard to find items, so the power involved isn't too extensive.

As for the forms themselves, the shift-times listed are a base idea, and would be used to activate the form, or shift from one to another. dismissing the form so you can store the glyphstone in your pack and wield a regular weapon (or a rod, or whatever else you need or want to do) should require either a fraction of the shift time (1/5 maybe?) or just a flat-rate 2-6 turns or something. The shift-times prevent us from abusing the many powers at our disposal, while allowing said powers to be chosen for the appropriate situation.

Edit: I don't think of this as magic, more as a sort of spiritual focus. The wielders mind focuses on the shape and form of the glyph he has acquired, and the glyph (not the wielder) forms the weapon. Whether this should consume mana or not, I don't know. Ditto for spellcasting skill. IF it does use the spellcasting, I DO still think wisdom should affect the glyphs more then intelligence.
Please, give any comments or criticism you can think of. Or veto's of ideas from Variaz.