Diving

[ikarius]

Another noob question; how does one "dive" in the random dungeons, or does one? I got my character to level 18 or so, but the "random" dungeons are rather difficult as they don't stick around; word-of-recall doesn't allow you to go back into a random dungeon. I got into one random dungeon that started at depth 5, and I think I got to depth 11 or so before it presented me with an "end of dungeon" level. I lucked out and found a random dungeon which started at depth 14, but really really needed to jump out and sell stuff off at around level 19. It's hard to dive without following the main quest line when you can't word-of-recall back and forth; you quickly end up with too much stuff in your inventory.

Cheers
Ikarius

[grindorin]

The random dungeons in the wilderness are pretty much random. They generally tend to scale with your level, but then, I have entered a random dungeon that started on level 2 when I was a level 20 player.

The only real advice I can offer here is: Enter a random dungeon, if it starts too shallow, leave the dungeon and try again.

[sekira]

Hmm, follow the main quest line?

I personally haven't done much random dungeon diving, so I don't know a good solution to your particular problem. If you wish to continue with random dungeons, you may just have to leave that magic eq lying on the ground. I've had to do that before when I was in a quest level, and I wanted to finish the quest rather than restart it from the beginning... might be the same way with random dungeons.

One ability that may take some of the sting out of leaving the loot would be the Mage ability Stone to Gold, which lets you destroy an item to get a little gold. You will get a tiny fraction of the gold you would have got if you had sold a magic item, but a little is better than none. If you have the identify spell, so you can do unlimited identification, then you can figure out what is the best stuff to hold on to and what you can afford to stone to gold, or if you don't get the ability, what you can afford to just drop. I like to keep an eye out at the black market for the identify spell book, because otherwise you have to wait a while to get the spell, as the book is depth 15.

[ikarius]

Sekira,
I experienced something very different than what you suggested; I went looking for random dungeons, and jumped into over a dozen, at character level 16. Eventually I got one which started at depth 14, but out of the rest, the highest level I jumped into started at level 8, and all the others started at depth 2-5. Perhaps the code for random dungeon depth should be looked at? I'll re-test and see if I get different results in the meantime.

Cheers
Ikarius

[Variaz]

Random dungeons are scaled with your level, although sometimes they can still be low, because that might actually be what you want. You might want to get some easy purples just to make some money, without necessarely wanting a huge challenge. Of course, you could just visit some of the premade low-level dungeons, that would work too.

Also, remember that a dungeon can start out at level 1 and end at level 30. Just because it starts low doesn't mean it doesn't go deep.

[Gando]

I think dungeon diving is a different experience in Portralis than in other bands primarily because its a completely different type of game. It is still roguelike but it has veared away from the hacknslash as the main focus to sort of a more adventure oriented game. It still has the level up/diving aspect available but dungeon diving can quickly become deadly in Portralis even on lower levels as the mobs tend to scale with you regardless of dungeon level. Also you no longer need worry about the level of the mobs really unless you are trying to get class kills and even so Ive found if you change classes often enough your class levels tend to outnumber your character levels by the time you get into your 20s and 30s.

So my suggestion would be dont try to apply angband techniques to Portralis, and instead follow the quest lines. The main quest dungeons go quite deep at certain points.

[ikarius]

So my immediate question is- if it's a "random" dungeon, why would it end early? I haven't tried to fully explore a lot of random dungeons as I usually have a full inventory after 3 levels or so, but the one I jumped into at depth 6 topped out at level 11. I understand that's not a statistically significant sample, but it seems to me that if you want to dive, there wouldn't be much more frustrating than jumping into a random dungeon and going through a bunch of floors only to find that the dungeon "ended" before getting to the depth you were looking for; it still takes time to find and get to the stairs down, even if you are mowing through easy critters.

I did a quick test of random dungeons. Currently character level 20, and ran around one panel outside of Jiran entering each random dungeon. I entered 30 random dungeons.

13 were levels 1-6, fairly evenly distributed
4 were level 7
4 were level 8
2 each of levels 9, 12, 14
1 each levels 10,11

Note that in 30 random dungeons, I didn't get one which started deeper than 14, and only 2 out of 30 were that depth.

--Ikarius

[Gando]

Again AS I SAID PREVIOUSLY...don't dive...just play the random dungeons have quest levels at the bottom floor which provide significantly better item drops from the quest mobs therein. If you absolutely MUST have a specific level of dungeon...scum the level like you do in other bands. (As Grindorin suggested before) Yes it takes time. Sure it could be frustrating if you get unlucky but I imagine that if you are trying for a specific level you either have the patience to scum until you get it or will never be happy.

[ikarius]

Gando- sorry- I think you had posted your previous while I was typing out my last post. I was previously advised that I *should* dive, so I was experimenting with the random dungeons.

Cheers
Ikarius

[grindorin]

A bit of clarification on my earlier suggestion: Ye doesn't have to change screens in the wilderness. The dungeon will be a totally new random dungeon every time ye enter, even if on the same wilderness screen. Ye will just have to find the new stairs (as the location of them changes as well).

[sekira]

Yes, I suggested you dive in response to your concerns about gaining class levels. The solution really is to go deep in the dungeon so the things you are killing are consistently higher level than you are. I personally do try to be at a relatively deep dungeon level compared to my character level if I can survive that, but I usually ignore the random dungeons and instead just go through the quest dungeons.

To me it is really fun to get levels fast and push the envelope in terms of dungeon depth, that and I don't have a ton of time to play, and so I'd rather not spend it slogging through repetitive random dungeons that don't get me any closer to the end of the beta. I can see how getting a random dungeon's quest level could be fun too, if it gives better loot and such, plus you know you can do another one after you finish the current one... I guess it is just a difference in playing styles.

[Frumple]

So, um... yeah. In regards to the random dungeon level, there's some things to note -- one, the level depth is tied to your character's level, and two, upon completing a dungeon, the next one you enter will be deeper than the one you finished. Maybe not in terms of starting depth, but I'm fairly sure that it is _certain_ that the immeditaly subsequent dungeon you enter after finishing one off will have its final level deeper. There are also some ways to reset the start depth to something appropriate to your level, but I've forgotten how at the moment. Oh, and I'm fairly sure that entering and immediately leaving a random dungeon will have the next one considerably more likely to generate with a higher starting depth, but that might just be an odd fluke.

As a second note, diving is actually incredibly frikkin' dangerous and I'd probably not suggest it, at all. The types of monsters generated are, I think, what is influenced by Dlevel -- that is, if you're on dungeon level 1, you're only going to find monsters (fairly) close to that level, insofar as the level definition in the monster-edit-file-thingy. For example, purple jellies start showing up on Dlevel 3, if memory serves, and I don't _think_ you're going to see them earlier no matter your Clevel. Can definately be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that's how it works.

That doesn't mean it's not helpful to spend some time running around the random dungeons, but hopping down to the bottom ASAP in all cases will most likely get you killed and quickly -- I, at least, tend to have to be _very_ careful about controlling the DLevels I walk around, or else things go south quick-like.

Anyway, maybe the great V-ish one can shed some light on it... or at least point to the LUA files that define dungeon gen, heh.

[Variaz]

Oh, and I'm fairly sure that entering and immediately leaving a random dungeon will have the next one considerably more likely to generate with a higher starting depth, but that might just be an odd fluke.

It's definitly just an odd fluke.

For example, purple jellies start showing up on Dlevel 3, if memory serves, and I don't _think_ you're going to see them earlier no matter your Clevel.

There is a slight chance that you COULD meet one earlier, but it's not based on the Clevel. Enemies gets a slight level boost from your Clevel if it's high, but the type of enemies is not influenced by the Clevel.

As a second note, diving is actually incredibly frikkin' dangerous and I'd probably not suggest it, at all.

Early on, it's wise to be on the same Clevel as the Dlevel. Later, it's a bit harder to keep up, and not necessarely required. For example, even though Quazar's dungeon goes down to 30, Clevel 25 is enough to beat that dungeon and Quazar himself.

Anyway, maybe the great V-ish one can shed some light on it... or at least point to the LUA files that define dungeon gen, heh.

The great V-ish one still hasn't converted that part of the code to lua, so right now, there's no .lua scripts that handles this.