Level 50 mobs??? *spoiler alert*

[Gando]

Some of the higher level monsters are insane and make the game extremely unfun.

Bone Lord variants are just one example. Nearly impossible to kill, they also use some kind of acid attack which destroys any reason to try and kill them. (Namely pick up the stuff around them.) Not only that but they do insane damage to boot.

Planar Phantoms are extremely (and I can't emphasize this enough) annoying because you CAN'T damage them. They take the nothing damage from your brand and disappear before the blade/haft etc hits them so their teleport acts as a super soaker shield eating up to 99% of the damage. Thankfully they suck at attacking so they aren't that dangerous but they make it impossible to rest even in mountains where youd think youd be safe enough.

The only reason I am on level 50 is because of the main quest. It seems that the higher level monsters need to be toned down just a tad. Even with full blue/yellow gear and everything leveling up my level 34 Kensei/Rogue is no match for these monstrosities. Thankfully my Shadow Blink makes running away a little easier and really dying doesn't matter anymore since I can't lose the important things...but it is still EXTREMELY inconvenient and time consuming.

Im not even asking for tips now...Im asking for some softening of the blows. Nightmares are bad enough and I have succeeded for the most part in avoiding dealing with them. It sucks when a level 30-3X character can't proceed through the game because it has become impossible.

[Variaz]

I tested this part with my Defender when I had him, and I was able to defeat the monsters without too much trouble. I had a full set of levelables, which is what the 50+ is tuned for. The 50+ is not meant to be easy for characters with levelables. It's meant to REQUIRE this kind of equipment to stand a chance.

Before calling for a nerf, you might want to start by posting your character. There may be things you can improve.

Another thing is to make sure everything works fine. We already know that the Rogue is underpowered, so it could be the Rogue that needs improvements. You also mentionned Iajutsu being broken, so that doesn't help either. And for Planar Phantom, it's reaction to brands is unintended, and is an oversight. Having a weak brand makes it almost impossible to kill, and that is NOT intended.

[Gando]

Defender is one of the classes that is definitely not underpowered imho once you get some offense together. Try doing it with a mage or any of the low def classes and you will see what I mean. Without Armored Health etc you will die and often. It shouldn't matter if you have your equip all eternalized but it does suck to lose all your progress because you run into a monster that can't be killed and that wipes the floor with you. I expect a gunner might do ok if he also took defender levels for the ac and hp. I had one mob hit me with multiple soul crushes before I even got within melee range. Ridiculous ability imho, particularly for a 'normal' mob.

[Variaz]

I'm almost at depth 50 with my gnome high mage, so I will see how magic is faring(my normal lightning balls now do about 5-6 million a shot, so it's pretty good). I know melee and ranged can do it though.

Your current character is a kensai/rogue hybrid. However, as almost everyone here agreed, the Rogue is currently underpowered, so the problem may be the class itself, more than the monsters.

[Gando]

5-6mill might scratch some of these monsters...yep...if they don't kill you first.

[Gando]

Add Andreos to the list of unbeatable and completely unfair monsters....64mil hp 5 lives, soul crush, vortex etc and it walks through walls so you can NOT get away from it. COMPLETELY UNFAIR. At any level really. Even if you have the damage to kill it you won't get the chance. It is 3x faster than 100+ speed.

[Gando]

What is with the Radio Imps casting 3mil per ball spells??? ...

[Gando]

Disabling Equipment is horrible. Why not just destroy it flat out and make us quit playing forever? Same thing really. Just horrible.

[hairybolox]

I agree with you Gando - it is getting silly now.....
Every monster is getting stronger & stronger with every release - what is the point of something 8 lives & each one being 10's of millions.... !!! Even if you get the drop on one & you have 5 spells per cast it's still going to vaporize you the next round.....

I really think nothing should have more than 3 lives - at least it gives a player a "chance" to survive.... albeit a slim one ;-)

Or that the damage dealt be scalled back - yes we all like causing big green damage numbers, but does it really matter if there are 6 numbers or 10 ? At least if the amount of damages were 1000% less the monsters wouldn't need multiple lives & any damage we do manage to deal them from multi spells wouldn't get wasted....

Just a thought....

[Variaz]

Thread moved to the Suggestions/Comments forum, since it's less abous specifically difficult content, and more about the regular content.

Extra lives are mostly a needed balance tool. Without it, some builds would simply dominate others in terms of damages and effectiveness, and there would be no reasons not to play them. Besides, it makes no sense to me that powerful beings like the ones you face should die in a single, quick blow.

Extra lives shouldn't be such a problem. After all, you've got 20+ blows(and a lot more if you have Daggers), multiple shots and multi-effect spells or chains that hits multiple times. All three combat styles can attack multiple times in one turn.

I believe the real problem is that often, 90% of these attacks miss, and it's because of the counters. I think these are the real problem, and it's overpowered at the moment. Part of the problem is that nothing but base stats helps overcoming them(save for a few abilities), and it becomes a battle of your base stats vs the monster's base stats. You can guess the result: monsters almost always block your attacks because their stats are way higher than yours.

It got to the point where sometimes it can take me 3-4 casts to kill a depth 30 elemental lord enemy with no extra lives. I'm level 31 with my mage, fighting drakes and starting depth 50+, it's not good that Fire Lords can still block spells almost 50% of the time.

Even worst, Phantom of Misery, the Nightmare Horror ghost, was supposed to be tough due to a 50% chance of guaranteed block. Turns out that right now, it is actually EASIER to hit than the normal monsters, who can easily have 75-80% block due to their high stats.

For the next build, I have some ideas in mind:
- Add the value of related skills to the counter-bypassing roll. So if you attack with a sword, Fighting and Swords will be added to the roll. If you shoot, Shooting and either Bows/Crossbows/Firearms will be added, and for magic, Spellcraft and the related specialized skill. This will help compensate for your lower base stats.
- Perhaps make it so that not all monsters have counters trigger 100% of the time, which is currently the case. 50% would provide enough blocks to avoid killing everything in one turn, yet would prevent blocking 90% of attacks all the time. Uniques could have 75% and only "difficult content" monsters like Nightmares could have 100%, or maybe a new boss ability of "increased block chance"...

[hairybolox]

Extra lives are mostly a needed balance tool. Without it, some builds would simply dominate others in terms of damages and effectiveness, and there would be no reasons not to play them. Besides, it makes no sense to me that powerful beings like the ones you face should die in a single, quick blow.

Extra lives shouldn't be such a problem. After all, you've got 20+ blows(and a lot more if you have Daggers), multiple shots and multi-effect spells or chains that hits multiple times. All three combat styles can attack multiple times in one turn.

Variaz I understand why they have extra lives & agree that a high level being shouldn't find it's end in"insta-death" BUT some of these beings are of a lower level than our characters so shouldn't this also apply to us as well....?

Even 50 blows averaging a few million damage each doesn't really make much impact on a monster with 5+ lives each one having 10's of millions of hp's..... Even less when you take into account those d**n counters that means you miss more than hit
A multi shot spell does perform better (my best chars use this), BUT how many non mage chars have you built with mana high enough to throw them ?? Also even IF your spells are powerfull enough to account for one life any extra damage doesn't carry over so it's only beings with 5 lives or less that die. Then you have those pesky counters AND magic returning to contend with....

I believe the real problem is that often, 90% of these attacks miss, and it's because of the counters. I think these are the real problem, and it's overpowered at the moment.

Exactly - After all even an average shot can hit a fast clay pidgeon weiding a shotgun..... so how hard could it be to hit any monster the size of an elephant ! Unless it's learnt how to dodge from Neo ;D

Thank you for considering changing things - I really love playing this game, but it's really frustrating at the mo.

Maybe some of the counters can be related to whether the monster sees you or not - would help stealthy chars like Rogues out a bit too....

[Variaz]

Gando:

The Zekis imps were an experiment, and I knew that they would cause problems, and would be a difficult encounter. Even my Defender couldn't beat them(they are especially nasty to melee characters). But they might be overpowered, since of course they have the counters and such. Perhaps their greatest fault is that they are a common enemy. Without necessarely removing them, because I DO like them, maybe I will make them rarer.

As for the Radio Imps, it would be more around 300k, not 3 millions.

Still, 300k is probably too much for a "pack" enemy, and both kind of imps can pull it. And of course, the counters problem makes them really difficult to kill.

[Gando]

I do not lie. 3mil is not an exageration. Not sure how it got there but that was an accurate report according to the numbers in the lower right hand corner.

[Variaz]

Jan 14, 2010 18:57:12 GMT -5 Gando said:

I do not lie. 3mil is not an exageration. Not sure how it got there but that was an accurate report according to the numbers in the lower right hand corner.

Not sure how that's even possible.... It would have to have been a boss, with double magic ability, and even then.... it would probably have been MAYBE 1 million, at most. (probably not)

The report may not have been accurate, or there was a Radio Imp, but it was another monster that killed you. (most likely a Nightmare)

I'll see when I encounter them how much damages they do.

[Gando]

Doubt it was a nightmare as I am careful not to carry anything like that around. The few times I have done that the nightmares I encountered were the lowest level manageable ones.