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Post by paulblay on Jan 22, 2009 12:11:27 GMT -5
I'm not that experienced in roguelike games in general, or Portralis in particular, so I'm taking this opportunity to comment on things from an 'outside' perspective (more or less). Right from the start with a new character.
Creating a new character
It is absolutely great that the world introduction text exists, but is it what people want to see first? I think it is rather too long to absorb in one lump.
I think the initial "world" section should be cut down to a single screen (possible example given below). It should, however, be possible to read the full description later as a (help?) option).
=====================
** WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF PORTRALIS **
The known world is a single large continent surrounded by the ocean,
known as Infinite. At its centre is the kingdom of Jindar, the oldest
and largest kingdom ruled by the much admired King Julian Strongheart.
In the north lies the powerful kingdom
Rhyzendal consisting of numerous towns and cities among the snow and
glaciers. Almost all of the peoples of Rhyzendal are of
fiendish origins.
To the east the great mountains of Agharias tower. Near the mountains
also lies the great kingdom of Ivhala, a human kingdom but one where
a good number of dwarves also live.
In the west is the technically advanced country Karigen, where many
human and gnomish alchemists and inventors gather. The Varkoth river
flows past this land.
South grows the Nimrayan forest, where the elvish kingdom of Nimbraya
is to be found.
The year is now 700 AGD, "After the Great Discovery," so named for
the finding of the intensely magical stone known as Licialhyd.
[Press Space to continue]
=====================
The current race selection process seems a little counter intuitive
to me (select race -> see help text -> answer "Y" to "Keep this
race [y/n]?")
I would suggest the following:
Race is selected (either by up/down arrows or by pressing letter)
and then confirmed (e.g. by pressing [Return]). When a race is
selected, but not confirmed, the top half of the screen can have
an abbreviated version of the race help text displayed. Use of
the help command ? would display the (selected) race help in full.
"Reroll" (on the character screen) is now a pointless option as
the only thing that appears to be 'rolled' is the age (and that
can be set manually later anyway).
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Post by paulblay on Jan 22, 2009 12:31:40 GMT -5
Getting started help
Having successfully created a character it's a bit daunting working out what to do next (apart from to see the mayor as suggested in the prologue text ;-). I suggest a "Getting started" help text is required.
The new character is an 'apprentice' which, as I eventually worked out, means they haven't chosen a class yet.
Is there any benefit to staying an apprentice, or should you change your class to something more useful as soon as possible?
In either case any "getting started" text should explain what apprentice means and that you can change your class (with the command Y).
Your new character also has 2 stat points, 5 skill points and 1 ability point to spend. This should also be pointed out (as well has how to spend them) or people will have a harder time right at the start of the game than they need to.
The business of level vs class level and exp vs class kills is rather confusing, and might well benefit from a mention at this point as well.
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Post by Variaz on Jan 22, 2009 16:54:34 GMT -5
Paul, Welcome to the forum, and thanks for trying out Portralis.  Reading this post and the other one on the user-interface section, I guess you found the interface and help file to be a bit clumsy, and not exactly user-friendly... Over the course of the versions, I will admit to not have focused a lot on the help and the user interface. As a result, user-interface is getting a bit aged and some options do not work as supposed to(or at all). A lot of them are actually old junk from old versions of PernAngband(old ToME), which P was based on a very long time ago. And yes, a "getting started" guide would be very useful. Initially, it had one, but it became obsolete and since then, I didn't make a new one. And new features appeared, and now, you're right, it requires one more than ever. I was thinking also of perhaps putting an optional "tutorial" quest, where an NPC would guide you through starting out, as well as familiarize yourself with some of the game's features. A "getting started" guide would still be added to the help. As for the story, I mainly made it the first thing seen because I wanted peoples to read it. If I just put it in the help menu, peoples wouldn't read it, and wouldn't understand certain elements the game refers to(such as the Licialhyds, the five kingdoms, the races, etc...). It could be done in a nicer way than just displaying a raw text file though. No, there is no benefits. Except an increased challenge, if that's what you're looking for.  Thanks for your post, and for reviving the User Interface thread. Hope you'll still enjoy the game! |
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Post by Gando on Jan 22, 2009 21:01:59 GMT -5
Welcome Paul, (my name sake in real life) I agree that the beginning could be a little clearer for new players but I like the intro. I think it could be better written but hey, Var is a master programmer not a master writer in the english language. I think the basics for beginners are...how to use the commands...how to navigate in the world...how to use your home...how to equip items and how to use items...the significance of completing quests and the idea that the game is completely nonlinear. It is very possible for instance to totally mess up side quests and be unable to complete them. Also while Portralis is a Roguelike spin off it is arguably not much like Rogue at the moment. (no permadeath, a world interface instead of merely a few maps and alot of random dungeon. a story line.) It is indeed an RPG and one should approach it that way. Talk to all NPCs you can. Try out things you don't understand. In fact just try everything. |
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Post by paulblay on Jan 22, 2009 23:33:29 GMT -5
As for the story, I mainly made it the first thing seen because I wanted peoples to read it. If I just put it in the help menu, peoples wouldn't read it, and wouldn't understand certain elements the game refers to(such as the Licialhyds, the five kingdoms, the races, etc...). It could be done in a nicer way than just displaying a raw text file though. I agree in general, but I think you can't force people to read something they might not be interested in. I agree that just putting it in the help menu might not be the best approach (although I would have read it there ;-). Some alternatives are - still have it during the character generation process but as a selectable menu option (0 - read world description, 1 - generate character) - put it on a scroll (several scrolls) in your backpack. - ditto, but drop the scroll(s) as treasure on level one. - split the information up further and make it part of the conversations of random town NPCs. how to use the commands...how to navigate in the world... Hi gando. The sheer number of commands is a little overwhelming. There isn't much you can do about that, but it might be possible to pick out a subset of most vital commands that all character classes will need to know. On navigation there should probably be more 'in-game' guidance as to where important (known) places are on the world map. For example, sign posts at the edge of town (N - Jindar, ...) or (when appropriate) even road generation in the overland maps. |
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Post by Variaz on Jan 22, 2009 23:57:52 GMT -5
Actually, you can just press Escape if you don't want to read it. It actually takes less time that dropping an unwanted scroll would. Also, what is in the story text is supposed to be common knowledge in Portralis, the player is not a stranger thrown in an unknown world. I prefer to keep scrolls for information that might not be common knowledge, and might reveal secrets. |
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Post by paulblay on Jan 23, 2009 3:43:40 GMT -5
Actually, you can just press Escape if you don't want to read it. Exactly. Which is why I think you should serve it in easily digestible portions. ================================= Torches. Is there any possible reason to buy / use / pickup torches and not lanterns? If you're starting with 1,000 gold then the price certainly isn't significant. 49 Stack of Arrow Shaftses Shouldn't that be "49 Stacks of Arrow Shafts" ? |
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Post by Gando on Jan 23, 2009 4:10:11 GMT -5
*notes* it seems inevitable that when a player discovers Portralis there are going to be things they do not like. I was that way at first and there are still some things I don't like but they are rapidly diminishing. The point here being that a) Portralis is still growing so we value your input. b) Portralis is far from smooth and I dont think the end result should be smooth. In some ways the whole heritage of being a roguelike descendant means that it still is a game that makes you think a bit. People who can't be bothered to read a 5 paragraph introduction deserve what they get when they are puzzled by in game things. Also being an RPG the first rule is: try everything and discover everything you can. Because information is your friend. So with that said I do not think giving the intro in small bites to the players is desirable. Those who are not mentally lazy will read through it and be entertained...and those who don't? well maybe they won't miss anything Perhaps at some point when the game has settled more there will be a need for an indepth spoiler/guide for the truly lazy or short on time players. For now I am happy to answer questions as they arise in the forums and Im sure most of the other vets are too. |
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Post by paulblay on Jan 23, 2009 4:56:07 GMT -5
People who can't be bothered to read a 5 paragraph introduction deserve what they get when they are puzzled by in game things. Which introduction would that be? 'story.txt' is about ten times that long. Actually the abbreviated, one screen, world description that I posted above is 6 short paragraphs. That, with a similarly abbreviated screen combining THE LICIALHYD and DEMISE OF THE ORCS could make a two screen (rather than 25) user friendly introduction. By all means let people have a clear option to read the full text if, and when, they want to. I just think that more people will read one (or two) screens of text on starting a game than will read 25 screens of text. |
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Post by Gando on Jan 25, 2009 4:59:03 GMT -5
People who can't be bothered to read a 5 paragraph introduction deserve what they get when they are puzzled by in game things. Which introduction would that be? 'story.txt' is about ten times that long. Actually the abbreviated, one screen, world description that I posted above is 6 short paragraphs. That, with a similarly abbreviated screen combining THE LICIALHYD and DEMISE OF THE ORCS could make a two screen (rather than 25) user friendly introduction. By all means let people have a clear option to read the full text if, and when, they want to. I just think that more people will read one (or two) screens of text on starting a game than will read 25 screens of text. Ok well even 25 screens (100 paragraphs?) isn't too much if you skim what you don't wish to read. It might make starting the game slow but then again so does reading any documentation associated with new games. I think if the online help had the story in a reference file that would be a suitable solution. As you know the game already allows you to totally skip reading the intro if you want to so that older players need not be bored every time they restart the game.  |
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Post by kingmonkey on Jan 25, 2009 23:56:54 GMT -5
Hehe, it took me a little while to work out how to get class kills. I tend to like to multiclass my characters a bit so with the help of a couple of wights it became very easy to get those class kills happening pretty quickly!
As for the intro text, it was obvious from the moment the character was created that this game was different and that was apparent in that I was being asked to actually *read* something. Shock! I rather liked it the way it is.
I do however think that an intro quest for an NPC to explain some features could be an excellent idea. There's probably stuff I've got no idea I could even try yet and perhaps learning about them would positively influence my gaming experience!
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