HORROR SHOW! (worst than the Nightmare Horrors!)

[Variaz]

Beware, what follows is extremely scary, a lot more than the nightmare horrors, even if they were real.

Please do not show this to anyone below the age of 18.

All right.... here we go. Don't say I didn't warn you!

1. Divine Strength(Active, level 1)

Effect: Temporarely raise your strength.
Bonus to strength: +2
Duration: 5
Extra points: +2 to strength.
+1 to duration.

This ability allow to temporarely raise your strength. This ability can be very
useful, as with only 15 points, you can get yourself an extra multiplier to your
damages. This can be very useful early in the game, so you can focus on other
stats such as Dexterity and Constitution, while getting a good Strength bonus
when you need it. The duration is short at first, but with a couple of points,
it will be enough to defeat a few foes before fading. And you can cast it anytime.

2. Holy Bolt(Active, level 1)

Effect: Cast a holy bolt of light at your enemies.
Damages: 10/(Wis - 5)
Type: Light
Extra points: +10 damages/(Wis - 5)

This ability allow you to cast a bolt of Light energy to your enemies. This is
a useful ability to take care of the monsters immune to physical attacks, or
if you want a fairly strong and reliable ranged attack. Also, there aren't so
many monsters that resists Light based attacks, so it will work fine on most
enemies. And if you place a couple of points into it, and raise your Spellcraft
skill, it can become a potent, free attack spell.

3. Aura Of Life(Passive, level 1)

Effect: Heal yourself and friendly monsters around you. Also damage undeads.
Healing on self: 3
Healing on friendly monsters or damages to undeads: 10/(Wis - 5)
Radius: 3
Extra points: +3 to healing.
+10 healing on friendly monsters or damages to undead/(Wis - 5).
+1 to radius for every 20 points.

This ability has many functions. The first one is to gradually recover some
hp while moving. The second is to heal friendly monsters around you, if you
have any. And finally, if there are any undeads around you, they will take
some damages. This ability can be quite useful, especially if you like having
lot of monsters with you, or if you want to be able to destroy undeads more
easily. Magic damages returning undeads will not return damages done by your
aura. Spellcraft will help raising the damages and healing on other monsters,
but will not affect the healing on yourself.

1. Unarmored Combat(Passive, level 1)

Effect: Gives you a bonus to your base AC.
Bonus to base AC: +4
Extra points: +4 to base AC.

This passive ability allow you to increase your base AC while not wearing
any armor. While the bonus might not seem so great, keep in mind that it
is the BASE AC that is increased, and that it is compatible with the
agility skill. If you raise both this ability and your agility skill, your
AC can become very high, and if you invest a lot in this ability, it may
become even better than the strongest suits of armor. Combined with the
bonus of the martial arts skill, this ability can easily help you forget
about wearing any kind of armor.

"this ability can easily help you forget
about wearing any kind of armor"

7. One With Body & Mind(Passive, level 6)

Effect: Increase both your hp and mana.
Bonus: +15 to hp and mana.
Extra points: +15 additional points to hp and mana.

This passive ability raise both your hp and your mana. If you use a lot
of magic, or simply need more hp(and probably both), then this ability
can be very helpful. By raising both stats, you will get the mana to
cast powerful spells without reducing your capacity to survive blows
from enemies.

this ability
can be very helpful.

8. Monk Speed(Passive, level 6)

Effect: Increase your speed while unarmored.
Bonus: +1 to speed.
Extra points: +1 to speed for every two points.

This passive ability raises your speed. Speed is very important later
in the game when enemies starts becoming very fast and hard to avoid.
Although this ability requires you to be unarmored, high speed will
usually more than make up for it, especially if you placed points
in Unarmored Combat ability.

Although this ability requires you to be unarmored, high speed will
usually more than make up for it

7. Energize Self(Active, level 6)

Effect: Restore hp, mana, and cure all bleeding.
Hp healed: 10/(Wis - 5)
Mana healed: 5/(Wis - 5)
Extra points: +2 hp healed/(Wis - 5).
+1 mana healed/(Wis - 5) for every two points.

This ability allow you to restore both your hp, mana and cure
all bleeding you may have. This ability is clearly better than
the priest's Heal, however, it is also A LOT harder to obtain
than the other one. If you don't actually need the mana healing,
or don't wish to build a High Monk character, the priest's heal
will probably be enough to do the job.

This ability allow you to restore both your hp, mana and cure
all bleeding you may have. This ability is clearly better than
the priest's Heal, however, it is also A LOT harder to obtain
than the other one. If you don't actually need the mana healing,
or don't wish to build a High Monk character, the priest's heal
will probably be enough to do the job.

Scary huh? I told you this thread was going to be an horror show!

With abilities like that, it's no wonder many peoples prefers the Monster race. And I didn't even bring the Rogue and the atrocious Marksman and Monster Mage(which might disappear completely).

But hey, Unarmored Combat and Monk Speed both at 10 is all you need to beat nightmares. Because "Although this ability requires you to be unarmored, high speed will usually more than make up for it". And don't forget One with Body & Mind, "this ability can be very helpful". Yeah.

[Gando]

Heh well dont be too hard on yourself, alot of this is detritus from newangband still and you have been working hard on the game to improve it. The statements in those abilities were probably somewhat true at some point.

Now the holy bolt ability of the Paladin is not entirely useless. It is perhaps under utilized and maybe underpowered but it does act as a phys immune killer early on. 1 point in that for a noncaster is pretty good for early survival. Aura of Light plays a similar support role early on. Id hate to see those go entirely without something replacing them that takes over their functionality.

[Variaz]

Yeah, you're right about the newangband thing. +15 hp per points was nice when you needed less than millions to survive, but now isn't very useful anymore.

A lot of the above abilities can probably be fixed though. Holy Bolt is nice, but is 100% inferior to the Elemental Lord's ball spell. Aura of Life lacks power. Divine Strength lacks some punch as well. So does Unarmored Combat.

One with Body & Mind, Monk Speed and Energize Self should be replaced though. One with Body & Mind could be kept but with an entirely different function. Monk Speed should be replaced entirely, using abilites to boost speed isn't a great idea in the first place. And Energize Self has no place being in a Monk's path, I mean, mana regen based on wis? If you have wis, you're probably not using mana! (but yes, in NewAngband, wis-casting didn't exist, so that's an old newang thing)

Although many of the older classes have been improved, there are still old useless abilities that persists like the above ones. They will need to be improved or replaced.

[Gando]

Yeah All the ones I didnt mention are definitely in need of boosting or replacement. It is tough finding good flavorful powers for each class. Energize Self SOUNDs like a monk ability but doesn't do anything near what I imagined it to do. (zapping people with static electricity or some such ) One with Mind & Body should be some sort of massive restoration/heal ability that takes the place of the spells. (It sort of sounds like the holistic names you see in the healthcare/bodycare business )
Maybe Monk Speed could translate into Monk Agility? (each point doubling the effective AC you get from Agility?). Imho Divine Strength should be a Smite Evil type ability since its a paladin main stay.

For paladins Id like them to be able to Detect Evil also...sort of a limited Telepathy and it lets the player know if something is capable of being smote. (Golems for example should not be aligned at all...where as nightmares probably are extremely evil and most Angels are definitely good regardless of who's side they are on.) and they should have an aura of protection (from fear, confusion, evil, you name it) for any followers they may have. Also maybe a summon steed ability? These are just off the top of my head.

[Variaz]

Detect Evil could have more uses than just detecting evil monsters. It could allow you to have some pseudo-diviner abilities against them, such as anticipate their moves to dodge, have better hit rate against them, etc... I like the concept.

[adelie]

Unarmored combat

"this ability can easily help you forget
about wearing any kind of armor"

That quote belongs on the new and improved hardiness ability. My last monk/high monk took six levels of hardiness and slaughtered the entire orcish army at level 18. In the buff (1200 base AC + some martial arts + some agility multipliers = plenty of skill points to spare for a good magic defense).

In fact, that ability is such a perfect fit, you could rename it "conditioning", move it over to the monk, and pretend "unarmored combat" never happened.

One with Mind and Body

Nice name, obsolete ability. The name makes me think of a mundane physical skill helping out in the magical realm. Maybe 10% of martial arts per AP feeds into... Mysticism? Alteration? Magic Defense?

Monk Speed

Erm? Put a point in this ability, take off your armor, and we'll pretend you're not a dwarf?

How about "foxwalk" instead. Maybe keep the speed bonus, give a slight stealth bonus, and allow the monk to ignore potentially damaging floor types on a staggered basis - lava (think walking on coals), floor traps (ya know, in the future; think of walking on thin rice paper without tearing it), other future stuff, deep water (walking on water) and eventually outright levitation (walking on air). ...Sure you could just get a ring of levitation or play a celestial, but now you can do it with style.

Maybe a scholarly, monastic sort of ability to add to the theme of monks being more than just martial artists. "Illumination" - buy a spell slot(s) to learn spells from scrolls. Stop having to carry huge stacks of phase door/teleport/recall scrolls around. Maybe have the ability scale, so if you invest in the ability enough, you can pick up some more interesting stuff, such as item leveling.

[Gando]

Hmmm interesting comments Adelie...
(*your name reminds me of Adlie Stevenson for some reason*)

Not really sure I get the Hardiness thing. 18 is rather late for beating the orc army down.

Owm&b = interesting idea...maybe instead of a specialist school put it in spellcraft.

Monk speed...huh? I can't say I think much of this really. One thing is that with agility you can pretty much avoid most hazardous terrains or take little damage from them at most. And afaik there aren't too many areas where terrain is a huge problem.

Illumination is a fun idea but I think it is off-flavor for the class. Maybe it would be a good idea as a Phase Warrior type ability for that class Frumple was talking about.

[Frumple]

Dec 5, 2008 1:17:08 GMT -5 Gando said:

Illumination is a fun idea but I think it is off-flavor for the class. Maybe it would be a good idea as a Phase Warrior type ability for that class Frumple was talking about.

The concept strikes my as interesting, but quite at odds with the phase warrior idea -- the closest RL parrallel I've seen is magic-eaters from Heng/Entroband.

It is traditionally thematic for monks, though, as it's fairly common for there to be some sort of scholarly theme for the class. In "real life" monks were only occasionally (and them usually more in eastern than western cultures) "Martial Art Death Machines". Generally, they're ascetic scholars you could probably knock over with a stiff wind... but capable of yapping theological circles around 90+% of the human population, being incredibly well read, possessing excellent (at least in comparsion to the average joe) scribing skills, etc, etc.

So something like A was describing would probably fit pretty well. I'd probably recommend some kind of scroll enhancement (or maybe actual scribing capabilities, though I'm not sure how plesant that would be in Port -- seeing scrolls re-written to be like potions would probably mean no more ?oTele, and that would royally blow, yanno'?) instead of 'eating' the scroll and being able to thereafter cast the effect at will, though, if only because there's not really that many scrolls around at the mo'. Some useful ones, yeah, but when was the last time you used a ? of Object Detection, huh? Why are there even trap det scrolls still in the game, anyway?

Not really full of ideas righ' now, though. 1 o'clock inna' morn' an' I got ~9 hours to finish a final, kehe.

[Gando]

It is traditionally thematic for monks, though, as it's fairly common for there to be some sort of scholarly theme for the class. In "real life" monks were only occasionally (and them usually more in eastern than western cultures) "Martial Art Death Machines". Generally, they're ascetic scholars you could probably knock over with a stiff wind... but capable of yapping theological circles around 90+% of the human population, being incredibly well read, possessing excellent (at least in comparsion to the average joe) scribing skills, etc, etc.

Im going to have to point out the fallacy here. Though it is true that the WESTERN idea of the monk is one of a theologically well trained and arguementative scribner or vintner holed up in a monestary possibly illuminating old texts into books or on parchement the fact is that Port's monks are of the deathdealing martial arts variety and as such this idea does not fit with them.

[adelie]

re: unarmored combat: Guess the power curve moved when I wasn't looking (I do know that monsters and crafters can get pretty crazy). I still stand by the idea that hardiness is quite useful for the unarmored monk character type. To get an equivalent base AC to the 6 AP in hardiness by the point of meeting the stat requirements for high monk would otherwise require: 600 skill points in martial arts or crafting and enchanter abilities + defense or 300 ability points in the current unarmored combat or heavy armor. Plus, it scales synergistically with the high monks stat requirements.

The "foxwalk" idea was more food for thought based on some real-world feats and folklore/mythology than an actual strong ability. Might be something that could be useful several versions down the road, depending on how things shape up - or could be completely useless (though more useful than the current ability) .

Amusingly, I have used the odd ? of object detection here and there - usually early game (before getting the low level detect spell books) after climbing downstairs and getting that "special feeling" but landing in a largish room where the only exits are secret doors. Can give a hint to where to search for the door (instead of having to go over every section of wall repeatedly). Obviously, detect doors/stairs is more useful, but sometimes you just gotta use what you got.

[zekk]

I feel like One with body & mind should be a bonus to.... something.... based on wisdom.
Martial arts and agility?

Divine Strength could have better strength increase, temp. light brand (?) Smite evil, undead, demons...

monk speed could be the same except per 5 agility (so multiplies speed bonus from agility?)

Energize self could be a temporary con bonus as well as full healing, but can't be used again for a duration (as so to not be able to be spammed)

Unarmored combat should increase your str, dex, con, base ac, to_dam, to_hit, martial arts, fighting, magic defence, and agility by 2 million per point. ;D
And crafting.

[Variaz]

All right, I haven't been coding much this week, so I didn't reply on this yet. After I think a few months of coding Portralis almost exclusively, I feel like slowing down a bit for a while, which is why I haven't posted much this week.

So, let's see!

That quote belongs on the new and improved hardiness ability. My last monk/high monk took six levels of hardiness and slaughtered the entire orcish army at level 18. In the buff (1200 base AC + some martial arts + some agility multipliers = plenty of skill points to spare for a good magic defense).

In fact, that ability is such a perfect fit, you could rename it "conditioning", move it over to the monk, and pretend "unarmored combat" never happened.

One with Mind and Body

Nice name, obsolete ability. The name makes me think of a mundane physical skill helping out in the magical realm. Maybe 10% of martial arts per AP feeds into... Mysticism? Alteration? Magic Defense?

Monk Speed

Erm? Put a point in this ability, take off your armor, and we'll pretend you're not a dwarf?

How about "foxwalk" instead. Maybe keep the speed bonus, give a slight stealth bonus, and allow the monk to ignore potentially damaging floor types on a staggered basis - lava (think walking on coals), floor traps (ya know, in the future; think of walking on thin rice paper without tearing it), other future stuff, deep water (walking on water) and eventually outright levitation (walking on air). ...Sure you could just get a ring of levitation or play a celestial, but now you can do it with style.

Maybe a scholarly, monastic sort of ability to add to the theme of monks being more than just martial artists. "Illumination" - buy a spell slot(s) to learn spells from scrolls. Stop having to carry huge stacks of phase door/teleport/recall scrolls around. Maybe have the ability scale, so if you invest in the ability enough, you can pick up some more interesting stuff, such as item leveling.

OwB&M: Yes, your idea is really nice. I agree with Gando that it should perhaps go into Spellcraft though, as this way, it wouldn't force a monk down to a specific path.

The reason Monk Speed isn't too great is that the bonus to speed is relatively easy to get through items, and in the long term, speed loses it's effectiveness when it becomes too high. The difference between no bonus and +10 is enormous. But the difference between +10 and +20, while noticeable, isn't as much. +20 and +30 doesn't make a big difference. You'll notice very little benefits of having it at +40 and higher. The "foxwalk" improvement is of little benefits, was terrain doesn't cause much damages. Of course, we could include damages fields in the ability, which would then help against monsters like Spirit of Blizzard, but I think an entirely different ability needs to take it's place.

Illumination's concept is nice, but I wonder how useful this actually is. It's not like scrolls are heavy to carry. Of course, it's good if you also use magic item, eternality and item leveling, but in the long term, I don't think this has much benefits with only that as it's function. Perhaps it needs something else. And I agree that this ability would be out-of-theme with a martial artist monk, though I perfectly understand the "scholarly monk" point of view.

I feel like One with body & mind should be a bonus to.... something.... based on wisdom.
Martial arts and agility?

Divine Strength could have better strength increase, temp. light brand (?) Smite evil, undead, demons...

monk speed could be the same except per 5 agility (so multiplies speed bonus from agility?)

Energize self could be a temporary con bonus as well as full healing, but can't be used again for a duration (as so to not be able to be spammed)

Yes, adding this sort of bonus to Divine Strength would be a good idea, though you make it sound like it's a weapon-enhancing ability, and it's not. But nothing prevents us from having the bonus apply to all attacks. Would even make it more interesting that way.

Monk Speed, for the reasons I described above, needs to be replaced. No matter how big the speed bonus becomes, it doesn't make much difference in the long term.

Hmmm, I like your idea for energize self. Though yes, it would have to have a duration, as you say.

Unarmored combat should increase your str, dex, con, base ac, to_dam, to_hit, martial arts, fighting, magic defence, and agility by 2 million per point.
And crafting.

In the end, it's still less uber than the amulet of infravision, or a red/green Flask of Oil.

[zekk]

Ok, now that I think about it:
Monks need a flying kick. NAO. xD

[Variaz]

Dec 7, 2008 19:36:08 GMT -5 zekk said:

Ok, now that I think about it:
Monks need a flying kick. NAO. xD

Yes!

Seriously, though, it could be implemented. It lets you point an enemy, and if it's in line of sight, you teleport right next to it while doing damages. Damages and distance would increase as you raise the ability.

[divinefistoka]

About holy bolt being underuseful, maybe revamp it by giving it flags like slay_evil (can you do that to spells?). That would give it a 'holy' feel, and increase damage against evil or undead, demons, etc. Would also make it more useful then element lord with light, even if the enemy resists some of holy bolts light damage, it would be multiplied by the slay brands. Maybe more brands at higher levels? (though evil at least should come early, for the non-casters.) Example: ball of element and holy bolt (both light) hit an enemy (or group in balls case) with around 100 damage. (just using easy numbers here.) even if enemy is not weak or resistant to light, the slay brands of holy bolt could multiply its damage by 1.5, or 2.0 or something, making it still useful.

Just a thought though...