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Post by zekk on Jul 23, 2008 12:26:52 GMT -5
Right. I have been attempting a shadow stalker kobold, and so far it has been working out pretty well. Currently, at level 14, I have 4 STR, 10 INT (5 without items) 5 WIS, 48 DEX, 6 Con (5 without items) and 4 CHR. I have 102 skill points into stealth. abilities, I had 1 in rogue's poison weapon, 1 in stealth attack, 7 in shadow cloak, 1 in shadow ball, 1 in dark mist and 3 in one with the shadows. Well, I think its working pretty well so far. though the bonus to agility does not seem to be working for one with the shadows, My DEX gets boosted to 123 when invisible, and the number of hits I do with bee sting goes from 29 to 66. with 8615 to hit, I don't think any of those will miss, either. Shadow ball damage while invisible should be 118 * 102 = 12036 with only 1 point in shadow ball. woah. so far, I think this build is doing pretty well. Most enemies walk mostly erratically, and the free phase door is really helpful. I am not used to simply walking away from enemies I can't beat. I died at bulgak....I didn't have class level 6 and one with the shadows then, though. wait, thats his name right? the kobold rogue? ....I'd kill him with a single shadow ball now. Anyway. I'm really not sure what I should do for my ability points from now on. shadow ball looks promising, but should get more in shadow cloak or one with the shadows instead?
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Post by Gando on Jul 23, 2008 12:48:01 GMT -5
maybe pick up some warrior abilities now? or fighter if that appeals. or ranger if you want to get even more sneaky stuff going.
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Post by zekk on Jul 23, 2008 21:01:17 GMT -5
Right now, I'm just waiting for the agility fix on one with the shadows, which will make him faster and nearly impossible to hit...
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Post by vastin on Jul 24, 2008 0:20:13 GMT -5
Well, I'd tend to suggest at least a few points in either Great Guard or Soul Guard by the time you hit around 20th. No matter how high your stealth/AC/Magic Resist is, something is eventually going to roll lucky, and by the looks of it a strong sneeze would kill you utterly dead at the moment. Alas, the to-hit formula is not one of the ones in the help sheet, so I can't say how it works - but its a fair bet that you can never render yourself un-hittable, even to a level 1 kobold, much less something big and nasty with a 50,000 attack rating. One of the big emergency shields is going to become a necessity some day unless you bump up your HP a lot via con/life% items, or eventually something will pick you off with a single lucky shot.
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Post by Gando on Jul 24, 2008 3:34:35 GMT -5
The game IS designed to kill you...alot... Your best bet if you hate losing all your equipment every time you die is to eternalize all your items when you get the chance. Ive had characters who have had more than 30 deaths before end game (killing the chaos fella.) The better builds had complete suits of eternal items. If you approach the game with the knowledge that you can NOT win with a deathless character your frustration levels will go down a lot.
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Post by vastin on Jul 24, 2008 21:43:53 GMT -5
The game IS designed to kill you...alot... Your best bet if you hate losing all your equipment every time you die is to eternalize all your items when you get the chance. Eh, the difficulty doesn't bother me at all. There are enough uber-powered builds that I can see going through the game with no deaths, though that is unlikely. The part I haven't figured out yet is where the giant damage spikes come from. I'll be wandering along with character 'x', wading through stuff that cannot hit me, or if it does, hits for negligible damage, and then something will hit out of the blue with a single attack that does several times my current hp. So, I'd say for the most part the game is balanced to be far too easy (95% of enemies die in a single hit, most enemies have a .01% chance to hit you and hit for nothing), but then it makes up for that by generating these tremendous - but seemingly random - spikes that will eliminate you if you roll poorly. Those aren't fun, not because of the lethality, but because they are more or less just results of the RNG to which there is no really effective tactical response because they happen in a single exchange. Occasionally I'll push a character too far, too fast and just get myself into a bad position where I die due to my own stupidity, but I'd say 80% of my character deaths in Portralis are of the 'Bolt From The Blue' variety.
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Post by vastin on Jul 24, 2008 21:49:43 GMT -5
As a note, the most survivable builds I've run so far are high power wis casters with extremely high spell power and LOTS of speed (+50 or better).
They operate on the theory of killing virtually everything around corners or before entering rooms using ungodly powerful ball spells, and never letting anything with a ranged attack into LOS.
So far as I can tell, this is the only way to be sure of surviving against elite/boss dragons for example, which have so many HP that even a very high resist against their element and excellent HP offers little or no chance of survival if they should choose to breath on the first round of engagement against them when they are at full HP.
I'm starting to give up on Melee characters altogether as they seem to have few survivable options in that scenario that I'm aware of, particularly when dealing with physical immune creatures that will probably survive a few rounds. Maybe once the changes to Great Guard/Soul Guard are in they will be a bit more valid.
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Post by Gando on Jul 25, 2008 1:04:03 GMT -5
The game IS designed to kill you...alot... Your best bet if you hate losing all your equipment every time you die is to eternalize all your items when you get the chance. Eh, the difficulty doesn't bother me at all. There are enough uber-powered builds that I can see going through the game with no deaths, though that is unlikely. The part I haven't figured out yet is where the giant damage spikes come from. I'll be wandering along with character 'x', wading through stuff that cannot hit me, or if it does, hits for negligible damage, and then something will hit out of the blue with a single attack that does several times my current hp. So, I'd say for the most part the game is balanced to be far too easy (95% of enemies die in a single hit, most enemies have a .01% chance to hit you and hit for nothing), but then it makes up for that by generating these tremendous - but seemingly random - spikes that will eliminate you if you roll poorly. Those aren't fun, not because of the lethality, but because they are more or less just results of the RNG to which there is no really effective tactical response because they happen in a single exchange. Occasionally I'll push a character too far, too fast and just get myself into a bad position where I die due to my own stupidity, but I'd say 80% of my character deaths in Portralis are of the 'Bolt From The Blue' variety. Eh...what builds are you playing? I haven't had the same experience at all...Granted Im a terrible idiot player and know nothing of tactics or strategy but I've found a) melee builds work just fine... with the caveat that all builds will die. b)Wis casters do not seem to have any advantage in that regard...Though to be fair most of my wis builds were hybrid melee/casters relying more on healing and high defense. I did not find a successful pure caster build for wisdom that I was happy with. Of course High speed makes the game a cynch if you can maintain it (which is the reason Speed rings are quite limited in bonuses, and expensive to boot) Though I think it must be said...melees even more than casters need Telepathy. It is a must have power after the first few dungeons. Also running from the really badass monsters is a great tactic I find...though of course I do not know anything of tactics. (37 years of chess down the drain ) I expect you are diving a bit deep to be getting mega bosses and elites ...particularly dragons which can be quite nasty in the high level dungeons. As far as random damage hits...I really do not get your difficulty...Ive never seen the damage range more than 100% from one monster to another except for elites and bosses of powerhouse monsters. Be aware that your resistances play a huge part in the damage dealt...if you are playing a for instance celestial...dark spells will murdelize you rapid quick fast. I have yet to find a build that totally negates the -100% weakness. Other than these things I have no idea what is causing you to experience such weird swings in damages...perhaps you will do us the favor of posting your current character (including abilities spent since the game doesnt provide that info)? This will give us a clearer idea of whats going on.
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Post by phlinn on Jul 25, 2008 9:50:45 GMT -5
I've managed to go the other way and convert the 100% weakness to light that demons have, although that was in 0.2. The only reliable way i can think of to deal with the celestial resistance is to hit level 38 having put all your points into 'resist impure', but that ability doesn't lend itself to being your sole focus. On the plus side, you will get extra healing from darkness effects as a celestial at that point I believe. I'd have to scan elements.lua to be certain. The next best option might be to become a darkness based elemental warrior for shield of elements.
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Post by zekk on Jul 25, 2008 12:53:30 GMT -5
Magic defence severly lessens the chance of a "bolt from the blue." I haven't put any on my stalker because they shouldn't see him, though. That being said, it is pretty nice when you dodge 2 dark bolts in a row with a celestial. xD
The one thing I don't like about this game is the "all or nothing" approach with monsters. either it WILL kill you, or you can ignore it completly.
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Post by Gando on Jul 25, 2008 13:37:44 GMT -5
Aye Magic Defense is really a must have for anyone with a vulnerability to an element...though that wont prevent a physical elemental attack from killing you.
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Post by Variaz on Jul 25, 2008 18:39:20 GMT -5
You are the first one I see here who thinks that Melee is weak. Melee are probably the most powerful characters overall, outdamaging anything as soon as you get a descent weapon. Granted, the fact that you have to actually get close means more risks, but you can do so much damages that it largely makes up for it. And said dragons deals more than enough damages with their breath attacks to kill a magic user from a distance. I recently played a caster Monster Mage with monster magics, and while it was quite powerful, even with a lot of Spellcraft and points in Monster Magics, it did not quite do as much damages than my melee characters usually do. Perhaps you should post your Melee build, so we can help you. Or, perhaps you just need a better weapon. Most of my own builds are melee, so I know that it's good! I believe these two problems are related, and while playing my last character, I was a bit disappointed myself with the sheer number of kobold infantry and devling infantry I encountered that provided no challenge at all(and at higher levels, very little experience). SO! I actually tweaked things a bit, to allow more rolls for better monsters when generating enemies. Not sure just how effective it will be, but higher level enemies should appear more frequently as you go down, thus maintaining a more balanced challenge.
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Post by zekk on Jul 25, 2008 20:48:05 GMT -5
I have noticed quite a few monsters that were level 18 that normally appear on floor 5, found around floor 14~17. I suppose this will fix that up.
Interesting how this topic seems to have gone off a little....
Any more tips for my shadow stalker? xD
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Post by Gando on Jul 25, 2008 22:37:43 GMT -5
As per our request to Vestin, post your build for us to see. And let us know if there is anything in particular that is causing you difficulties.
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Post by vastin on Jul 27, 2008 22:21:56 GMT -5
Sure, here's one - a full crafter/defender build. No vulnerabilities. 35 Magic Def, ungodly AC, and over 14k hp.
Died while hacking through random on-level trash. No idea what killed him alas, as I was scrolling through tons of useless combat text when the death screen just popped up. Fin.
He was unhurt at the time, and I certainly don't recall anything menacing showing up within telepathy range or I wouldn't have been spamming through combat.
But if a character with defenses THIS high for his level can die in a single hit to a nameless monster, then defense as a concept seems pointless. Better to play a style of indirect ranged offense and LOS evasion to make sure nothing ever comes into attack range.
[Portralis 0.3.0 Character Dump]
Name : Thorin Age 47 STR: 90 Sex : Male Height 47 INT: 5 Race : Dwarf Weight 156 WIS: 4 Class : Defender Alignment 2 DEX: 61 Death Count 1 CON: 96 CHR: 4 Level 23 Max Hit Points 14073 Experience 9824 Cur Hit Points 14073 + To Hit 5158 Max Exp 9824 Max SP (Mana) 267 + %To Damage 1265 Exp to Adv. 10200 Cur SP (Mana) 267 + To AC 71448 Gold 125159 Ability P 1 Stat Points 0 Blows/Round: 7 Skill Points 0 Blows/Round(2): n/a Class Level 4 Shots/Round: 1 Class Kills 92 Wpn.dmg: 20464-286515 Wpn2.dmg: n/a Sht.dmg: n/a Sht2.dmg: n/a Infra-Vision: 10 feet (Character Background) 0 You are the only child of a dwarven smith, and you were born in the eastern mountains. You have black eyes, straight black hairs and a dark complexion. ---------- CHARACTER'S SKILLS ---------- --- MISC. INFO --- a) Fighting: 0 A) Polearms: 0 Wpn.dmg: 20464-286515 b) Spellcraft: 0 B) Daggers: 0 Wpn2.dmg: n/a c) Shooting: 0 C) Axes: 0 Sht.dmg: n/a d) Throwing: 2 D) Rods: 0 Sht2.dmg: n/a e) Defense: 57 E) Martial Arts: 0 To_h : 5066 f) Agility: 56 F) Bow: 0 To_d : 1173 g) Stealth: 0 G) Crossbow: 0 To_a : 71448 h) Combat Feats: 0 H) Firearms: 0 AC : 12364 i) Dual Wield: 0 I) Elemental: 0 j) Leadership: 0 J) Alteration: 0 k) Alchemy: 20 K) Mysticism: 0 Dual Wield: No l) Crafting: 151 L) Conjuration: 0 Press 'u' to toggle. m) Swords: 6 M) Divination: 1 n) Blunt: 52 N) Magic Defense: 35 Remaining skill points: 0 Press one of the letters to increase the skill. Press 'x' to view next skills page(if any). -------------- RESISTANCES -------------- Fire: 6 Cold: 0 Electric: 0 Acid: 0 Poison: 0 Light: 0 Darkness: 0 Warp: 0 Water: 3 Wind: 5 Earth: 0 Sound: 0 Radio: 2 Chaos: 0 Physical: 1 Mana: 0
[Miscellaneous information]
Maximize Mode: OFF Preserve Mode: OFF Autoscum: ON Small Levels: ON Arena Levels: ON Persistent Dungeons: OFF
Your body was a Player.
---------- CHARACTER'S SKILLS --- a) Fighting: 0 A) Polearms: b) Spellcraft: 0 B) Daggers: c) Shooting: 0 C) Axes: d) Throwing: 2 D) Rods: e) Defense: 57 E) Martial Arts: f) Agility: 56 F) Bow: g) Stealth: 0 G) Crossbow: h) Combat Feats: 0 H) Firearms: i) Dual Wield: 0 I) Elemental: j) Leadership: 0 J) Alteration: k) Alchemy: 20 K) Mysticism: l) Crafting: 151 L) Conjuration: m) Swords: 6 M) Divination: n) Blunt: 52 N) Magic Defense Remaining skill points: 0 Press one o Press 'x' to view next sk ------- --- MISC. INFO --- 0 Wpn.dmg: 20464-286515 0 Wpn2.dmg: n/a 0 Sht.dmg: n/a 0 Sht2.dmg: n/a 0 To_h : 5066 0 To_d : 1173 0 To_a : 71448 0 AC : 12364 0 0 0 Dual Wield: No 0 Press 'u' to toggle. 1 : 35 f the letters to increase the skill. ills page(if any). You have defeated 2439 enemies.
[Character Equipment]
a) a Mithril Flail (11d14) (+92,+92) (+1000 Light) b) a Mithril Shield (+92,+92) [57,+92] e) The Ring of Mithril Blazing Speed f) The Ring of Mithril Barrier k) an Amulet of Mithril m) a Brass Lantern (L:9, K:15/45) (with 0 turns of light) n) a Mithril Full Plate (+92,+92) [456,+92] o) a Heavy Cloak (+92,+92) [8,+92] p) a Steel Bracers (+70,+70) [0,+70] s) a Mithril Helm (+92,+92) [57,+92] u) a Pair of Mithril Gauntlets (+92,+92) [22,+92] x) a Pair of Mithril Boots (+92,+92) [22,+92] {) an Iron Tipped Arrow (L:1, K:0/5) (1d4) (+7,+14) |) (nothing)
[Character Inventory]
a) 9 Potions of Water (0 Water Rad: 2) b) 2 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds (25200 Healing Rad: 2) c) a Potion of Restore Levels (3 Restore Levels Rad: 2) d) 3 Potions of Strength (15 Raise Strength Rad: 2) e) a Potion of Immolation (44100 Fire Rad: 2) f) a Scroll of Blessing g) 7 Scrolls of Satisfy Hunger h) 6 Scrolls of Word of Recall i) 7 Scrolls of Teleportation j) The Amulet of Golden Truth 'ThunderStorm' (L:11, K:9/55) (+60,+60) k) The Steel Flail 'Chain of Thunder' (5d8) (+25,+25) (+2500 Electric) l) The Steel Katana The Whittler (4d6) (+3,+9) m) (nothing) n) (nothing) o) (nothing) p) (nothing) q) (nothing) r) (nothing) s) (nothing) t) (nothing) u) (nothing) v) (nothing) w) (nothing)
[Home Inventory (page 1)]
a) 53 Potions of Water (630 Fire Rad: 2) b) 74 Potions of Water (630 Water Rad: 2) c) 4 Potions of Weak Acid (1890 Acid Rad: 2) d) a Potion of Calm Water (1890 Water Rad: 2) e) 5 Scrolls of *Artifact Identify* f) a Scroll of Item Leveling {25% off} g) an Amulet of Reflection {50% off} h) a Leather Armor (+70,+70) [12,+70] i) a Cloak (+70,+70) [2,+70] j) an Iron Shield (+70,+70) [24,+70] k) an Iron Helm (+70,+70) [24,+70] l) a Pair of Leather Gloves (+70,+70) [4,+70]
[Home Inventory (page 2)]
a) a Pair of Leather Boots (+70,+70) [4,+70] b) The Steel Mace of Dalunia (L:1, K:0/5) (6d8) (+60,+60) (+700 Earth) c) an Iron Hand Axe (2d12) (+70,+70) d) a Sword of Balance (3d6) (+0,+0) (+500 Grey) e) a Fine 6-Shots Copper Revolver (x4, 6/6, 1 ammos/shots) (+36,+59) f) an Ingot of Mithril g) 3 Ingots of Mithril h) 4 Amulet Molds i) 5 Drops of Venom j) 2 Enchanted Salt k) 2 Black Powder l) (nothing)
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