Post by sekira on May 2, 2008 15:40:31 GMT -5
This may be a "well, duh, sekira" thread, but I'm going to put it up here anyway.
I'd like to point out the benefits of Sheer Power, as well as elemental Mastery and other general damage boosting abilities.
Now, some might look at sheer power and think, "it doesn't let you do anything, it just boosts damage a little for stuff you can already do"
On top of that, for very low damage weapons, like daggers, their base damage is so low, that you need to put several AP in sheer power before you get any benefit at all. If your minimum damage is from a weapon with a single die (1dx) then you need 10 AP in sheer power in order to get that minimum value up at all.
Indeed on the surface it looks kind of weak, especially when compared to such impressive level 1 combat feats as spin attack or accurate strike.
Spin attack, for example, hits multiple enemies, it is a combat feat, and it gets +20% damage per AP, instead of sheer power's 10%. Quite nice.
I still think that sheer power should not be dismissed so lightly, though. There are two primary reasons for this. I'll call them general benefit and extra multiplier (or avoiding diminishing returns might be a better way to put it)
First, General Benefit.
General benefit means that by investing in sheer power with a decent number of AP, you improve lots of different things, not just one. Putting 5 AP in spin attack will definitely make your spin attacks fearsome, no doubt about it. If you instead put 1 AP in spin attack and 4 AP in sheer power, though, then your spin attacks will be a little weaker, but all your other attacks will be stronger in that case... The benefits of sheer power become really impressive if your particular build uses lots of feats and abilities that rely on base weapon damage (or base unarmed damage, sheer power affects both). When that is the case your effectiveness gets quite a bit more noticeable.
Just look at 15 AP spent in accurate strike, spin attack, elemental strike, wave of element, and counter attack. With 3 AP in each, you do get some nice damage:
But if you put 10 AP in sheer power and 1 AP in each of the rest, then the damage looks like this
Now who can argue with those numbers?
About the Extra Multiplier benefit of sheer power...
What that means is that as you raise a single game stat that boosts damage, it gives you diminishing returns. If you raise two sources that boost damage as multipliers of each other then your damage will increase geometricaly instead of linearly. That is why you get better damage if you have 10 AP in sheer power and 10 AP in spin attack than if you have 20 AP in spin attack. 20 AP in spin attack gives you 5 times normal damage, but splitting your AP gives you 2 times normal damage and then 3 times normal damage multiplied together for 6 times normal damage. This explains why 21 AP in elemental strike does only 3.33% more damage than 20 AP in elemental strike. It seems strange, but because they multiply by each other, putting 1 point in elemental mastery after you have elemental strike at 11 AP will give a bigger boost to your overall damage with elemental strike than putting that AP into elemental strike itself. Yes this is true even though elemental strike gives +10% damage per AP and elemental mastery gives +5% damage per AP.
What you want is to get as many different multipliers as possible and raise them all.
Sheer power is very nice because it is always a seperate multiplier to you weapon damage, not an addition to an existing multiplier.
This is why raising your damage stat gives bigger boost the higher it gets... because it raises two different multipliers, your to_d and your final +(damage stat)% to damage. Yes, we LOVE weapon finesse for this reason.
So, when figuring a build, consider how many different multipliers to damage you can get and try to figure out how you want to raise all of them.
For melee weapons your most common multipliers are:
1) weapon damage dice and sides
2) weapon skill (fighting skill ADDS to this, it is not a seperate multiplier, but it has other benefits, so don't discount it)
3) to_d (this can be raised many ways, str, dex with weapon finesse, int with int fighting, martial arts weapon kata, and you can even consider your crafting base equipment bonuses to_d)
4) +(damage stat)%
5) sheer power
6) ability bonus (the bonus damage from spin attack or elemental strike, etc)
7) if using elemental strike or elemental wave or a weapon with base damage type of your element, then elemental mastery is yet another multiplier to damage
See, sheer power is in a class by itself, very nice.
with magic, you get fewer, but usually higher multipliers, but still this can mean they are weaker at higher levels.
1) spell power (or ability power)
2) spell stat (int-5 or wis-5)
3) spellcraft (+ elemental for spells)
4) racial bonus (light for celestials, chaos for zulgors)
5) elemental mastery (if casting your chosen element)
I didn't include the + spell equipment bonus, as it is only on a very deep depth artifact currently, so no one will ever see it in the beta.
There is one more thing I want to mention. It isn't well known that for most of the abilities that give a base starting damage and then a certain + percent boost to that damage per extra AP spent, you get that + percent bonus with the first AP.
I'm pretty sure Spin attack at 1 AP does 1.2 times your weapon damage right off the bat.
Figure this when trying to decide exactly how to spend your precious AP.
I'd like to point out the benefits of Sheer Power, as well as elemental Mastery and other general damage boosting abilities.
Now, some might look at sheer power and think, "it doesn't let you do anything, it just boosts damage a little for stuff you can already do"
On top of that, for very low damage weapons, like daggers, their base damage is so low, that you need to put several AP in sheer power before you get any benefit at all. If your minimum damage is from a weapon with a single die (1dx) then you need 10 AP in sheer power in order to get that minimum value up at all.
Indeed on the surface it looks kind of weak, especially when compared to such impressive level 1 combat feats as spin attack or accurate strike.
Spin attack, for example, hits multiple enemies, it is a combat feat, and it gets +20% damage per AP, instead of sheer power's 10%. Quite nice.
I still think that sheer power should not be dismissed so lightly, though. There are two primary reasons for this. I'll call them general benefit and extra multiplier (or avoiding diminishing returns might be a better way to put it)
First, General Benefit.
General benefit means that by investing in sheer power with a decent number of AP, you improve lots of different things, not just one. Putting 5 AP in spin attack will definitely make your spin attacks fearsome, no doubt about it. If you instead put 1 AP in spin attack and 4 AP in sheer power, though, then your spin attacks will be a little weaker, but all your other attacks will be stronger in that case... The benefits of sheer power become really impressive if your particular build uses lots of feats and abilities that rely on base weapon damage (or base unarmed damage, sheer power affects both). When that is the case your effectiveness gets quite a bit more noticeable.
Just look at 15 AP spent in accurate strike, spin attack, elemental strike, wave of element, and counter attack. With 3 AP in each, you do get some nice damage:
| Ability | Damage |
| Accurate Strike | 130% |
| Spin Attack | 160% |
| Counter Attack | 160% |
| Elemental Strike | 130% |
| Wave of Element | 30% |
But if you put 10 AP in sheer power and 1 AP in each of the rest, then the damage looks like this
| Ability | Damage |
| Accurate Strike | 220% |
| Spin Attack | 240% |
| Counter Attack | 240% |
| Elemental Strike | 220% |
| Wave of Element | 55% |
Now who can argue with those numbers?
About the Extra Multiplier benefit of sheer power...
What that means is that as you raise a single game stat that boosts damage, it gives you diminishing returns. If you raise two sources that boost damage as multipliers of each other then your damage will increase geometricaly instead of linearly. That is why you get better damage if you have 10 AP in sheer power and 10 AP in spin attack than if you have 20 AP in spin attack. 20 AP in spin attack gives you 5 times normal damage, but splitting your AP gives you 2 times normal damage and then 3 times normal damage multiplied together for 6 times normal damage. This explains why 21 AP in elemental strike does only 3.33% more damage than 20 AP in elemental strike. It seems strange, but because they multiply by each other, putting 1 point in elemental mastery after you have elemental strike at 11 AP will give a bigger boost to your overall damage with elemental strike than putting that AP into elemental strike itself. Yes this is true even though elemental strike gives +10% damage per AP and elemental mastery gives +5% damage per AP.
What you want is to get as many different multipliers as possible and raise them all.
Sheer power is very nice because it is always a seperate multiplier to you weapon damage, not an addition to an existing multiplier.
This is why raising your damage stat gives bigger boost the higher it gets... because it raises two different multipliers, your to_d and your final +(damage stat)% to damage. Yes, we LOVE weapon finesse for this reason.
So, when figuring a build, consider how many different multipliers to damage you can get and try to figure out how you want to raise all of them.
For melee weapons your most common multipliers are:
1) weapon damage dice and sides
2) weapon skill (fighting skill ADDS to this, it is not a seperate multiplier, but it has other benefits, so don't discount it)
3) to_d (this can be raised many ways, str, dex with weapon finesse, int with int fighting, martial arts weapon kata, and you can even consider your crafting base equipment bonuses to_d)
4) +(damage stat)%
5) sheer power
6) ability bonus (the bonus damage from spin attack or elemental strike, etc)
7) if using elemental strike or elemental wave or a weapon with base damage type of your element, then elemental mastery is yet another multiplier to damage
See, sheer power is in a class by itself, very nice.
with magic, you get fewer, but usually higher multipliers, but still this can mean they are weaker at higher levels.
1) spell power (or ability power)
2) spell stat (int-5 or wis-5)
3) spellcraft (+ elemental for spells)
4) racial bonus (light for celestials, chaos for zulgors)
5) elemental mastery (if casting your chosen element)
I didn't include the + spell equipment bonus, as it is only on a very deep depth artifact currently, so no one will ever see it in the beta.
There is one more thing I want to mention. It isn't well known that for most of the abilities that give a base starting damage and then a certain + percent boost to that damage per extra AP spent, you get that + percent bonus with the first AP.
I'm pretty sure Spin attack at 1 AP does 1.2 times your weapon damage right off the bat.
Figure this when trying to decide exactly how to spend your precious AP.
