Dual wield penalties

[sekira]

I have been thinking about it, and I think the way the penalties for dual wielding are applied is too restrictive, and the dual wield skill doesn't help enough until you are very close to the threshold for 0 penalty for that weapon.

This is because you start with a penalty to the number of blows based on weapon weight, and you reduce that penalty by investing in dual wield. The problem with this method is... what if your penalty is significantly higher than your maximum blows before any penalty.

For example, lets say you have a sword that with your current setup of str, dex, and martial arts skill gives you 4 blows per round before any dual wield penalty. But the sword is 14 lbs, which means it gives you a 8 blow penalty. Every 5 pts in dual wield reduces the penalty, so it will take 30 pts in dual wield before your penalty is low enough that your blows goes up from 1 to 2. then another 10 pts to get to your max of 4 blows.

I propose a method that evens out the penalty, so that you don't have to put 30 out of the 40 pts in dual wield before you see any difference.

To make this happen, here is the fix:

Replace

		-- Dual Wielding reduces the number of blows if weapons are
		-- too heavy...
		-- It takes a skill of 3 times the weapon's weight to properly
		-- wield two of them.
		if (two_weapon_wield() and p_ptr.dualwield == 1) then

			local blowpenality
			blowpenality = 0
			if (p_ptr.skill[9] < ((inven(INVEN_WIELD).weight / 10) * 3)) then

				blowpenality = (((inven(INVEN_WIELD).weight / 10) * 3) - p_ptr.skill[9]) / 5
				-- You never actually GAIN blows!
				if (blowpenality < 0) then blowpenality = 0 end
			end
			p_ptr.num_blow = p_ptr.num_blow - blowpenality
		end

with

		-- Dual Wielding reduces the number of blows if weapons are
		-- too heavy...
		-- It takes a skill of 3 times the weapon's weight to properly
		-- wield two of them.
		if (two_weapon_wield() and p_ptr.dualwield == 1 and p_ptr.num_blow > 1) then

			local blowpenality
			blowpenality = 0
			local maxskill
			maxskill = (inven(INVEN_WIELD).weight * 3) / 10
			local skillperblow
			skillperblow = 5
			if skillperblow < (maxskill / (p_ptr.num_blow - 1)) then
				skillperblow = (maxskill / (p_ptr.num_blow - 1))
			end
			if (p_ptr.skill[9] < maxskill) then

				blowpenality = (maxskill / skillperblow) - (p_ptr.skill[9] / skillperblow)
				-- You never actually GAIN blows!
				if (blowpenality < 0) then blowpenality = 0 end
			end
			p_ptr.num_blow = p_ptr.num_blow - blowpenality
		end

And

		-- Dual Wielding reduces the number of blows if weapons are
		-- too heavy...
		-- It takes a skill of 3 times the weapon's weight to properly
		-- wield two of them.
		if (two_weapon_wield() and p_ptr.dualwield == 1) then

			local blowpenality
			blowpenality = 0
			if (p_ptr.skill[9] < ((inven(INVEN_WIELD+1).weight / 10) * 3)) then

				blowpenality = (((inven(INVEN_WIELD+1).weight / 10) * 3) - p_ptr.skill[9]) / 5
				-- You never actually GAIN blows!
				if (blowpenality < 0) then blowpenality = 0 end
			end
			p_ptr.num_blow2 = p_ptr.num_blow2 - blowpenality
		end

with

		-- Dual Wielding reduces the number of blows if weapons are
		-- too heavy...
		-- It takes a skill of 3 times the weapon's weight to properly
		-- wield two of them.
		if (two_weapon_wield() and p_ptr.dualwield == 1 and p_ptr.num_blow2 > 1) then

			local blowpenality
			blowpenality = 0
			local maxskill
			maxskill = (inven(INVEN_WIELD+1).weight * 3) / 10
			local skillperblow
			skillperblow = 5
			if skillperblow < (maxskill / (p_ptr.num_blow2 - 1)) then
				skillperblow = (maxskill / (p_ptr.num_blow2 - 1))
			end
			if (p_ptr.skill[9] < maxskill) then

				blowpenality = (maxskill / skillperblow) - (p_ptr.skill[9] / skillperblow)
				-- You never actually GAIN blows!
				if (blowpenality < 0) then blowpenality = 0 end
			end
			p_ptr.num_blow2 = p_ptr.num_blow2 - blowpenality
		end

[Variaz]

Actually, I don't necessarely want the penalities to Dual Wield to be lower, because Dual Wield can be extremely powerful later on, doubling your blows, allowing you to block with two weapons, actually GAIN to_h if the skill is high... So it makes sense that you have to invest points to make it effective.

Probably won't implement that change, though feel free to move it to the Forge, so peoples can use it if they want.

Actually, I will probably move it to the Forge soon.

[sekira]

Hmm, I'm not reducing the overall penalty, I'm just evening out the bonus you get from dual wield skill, so that the benefits are evened out between 0 DW skill (still maximum penalty) and 3 * weight DW skill, which will still reduce the penalty to 0 as it always did.

The only difference is that you get some benefit before you hit 30 or 35 skill, if your weapon is heavy and your number of blows is low before the dual wield penalty is figured.

as it stands now, you have to invest 6 or 7 full levels of skill points in it for it to be worth anything at all. I don't like all or nothing skills, I like to get some benefit for some skill, and big benefit for big skill, like the rest of the skills work.

[kipar]

I think the current system is fine, because if you wield two heavy weapons you won't be able to use it for something more than simple bashing without high skill - no matter you have 0, or 5, or 10 points. It's only my opinion of course.

[Gando]

I agree entirely with Kipar and Variaz. I think this verges into overtinkering and then some.