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Post by Lipa on Sept 20, 2005 10:51:04 GMT -5
Well, we all know that resurrection is perhaps the most controversial idea of this game, and many other Banders are somewhat skeptical about it. I would like to see what you think. Do you like the feature? Would you cancel it out? Comments, ideas, suggestions…
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Post by Lipa on Sept 20, 2005 10:51:32 GMT -5
And what do I think? I must say that I like it. It offers many new possibilities, like preserving good items, storing money in home, keeping the stats… Perhaps one would say that this is a kind of cheating, but I disagree. New Angband is hard enough, and dying still happens, even when you think you’re fully equipped. The good thing about resurrection is that the game lasts much longer now. You get attached to the character, and you also have time to truly experiment with classes/abilities options.
However, I would change a couple of things as well. First, the memory. Other Bands allow you to restart the game fresh but with all the knowledge and options from the previous character. In New Angband, you can either resurrect or start over completely, no knowledge preserved. I think that when you die, the game should ask you whether you want to resurrect or start over (with your memory).
The other thing are the unique monsters. Resurrection is not really a new game, is it? And since the resurrected character remains the same, and the home also stays the same, I think that unique monsters too should stay the same – those who have been killed should stay dead, the others may live. It is somewhat strange to be killing poor old dumb Farmer Maggot over and over again…
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keeper waitingapproval
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Post by keeper waitingapproval on Sept 20, 2005 17:11:55 GMT -5
I like it too, it's a bit like mixing Diablo and Roguelikes Obviously loosing equipment, inventory and carried money just weights the immortality you gain (and you can make an object eternal!). I would like knowledge preservation too between chars (IMHO it should be something like ToME save files). But I think this system could be easily abused: just enchant every item you really need with scrolls of object eternality and then don't worry about death anymore... ;D I'd like that if you 'I'nspect or e'x'amine an item it should give you basic information about it (what does it do) like ToME but this is another story
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Post by Variaz on Sept 20, 2005 20:50:06 GMT -5
Eternality has been implemented, because it's fairly easy to die if you're not careful, and losing all good stuff can be annoying. However, if everything is eternal, it does make it like death is not a worry.... hmm... any ideas to make death a little more painful? You do get information about items with the "I" command, if it's identified. If you don't see anything, then it means it has nothing special, or it's not identified at all. Now, in 1.7.1, I added a new feature. When using the "I" command, the item's type will be shown, so you can know if the item is a sword, polearm, potion, food, etc... While most items are obvious, some might be ambiguous(like the Jingasa that was mentionned in another post). This feature will solve this problem!
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Post by divinefistoka on Sept 20, 2005 22:11:12 GMT -5
Hurrah!!!!! No more confusing item thingys!!!!
*ahem*... Resurrection is still painful, because some equipment, like artifacts, cannot be made eternal. And you cant make gold eternal, and can only store 30k per slot in your house.
But then, at the real late stages of game, when all your items are eternal, and will never even be seen in stores, and you have every resist covered thrice or more, it does seem to be a little weak.... hmmm.... maybe taking away class kills? Or a percentage of experience? (permenantly taking that is.)
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Post by Variaz on Sept 20, 2005 22:44:19 GMT -5
Taking away class kills heh? Now, this is a fun idea! Yes, real late in the game, when you won't lose your items, death seems weak... but it will happen often. Late game enemies can be real nasty!
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Post by Lipa on Sept 21, 2005 2:31:18 GMT -5
Another thing that makes death a lot weaker is also home stacking! You can keep a whole lot of good stuff in your house, including money… So here’s a crazy idea: ;D Each time you resurrect, there is a chance that something has been *STOLEN* from your home! The first time you enter your house, you can get a message like "You find your home in a disarray. Bloody thieves!" or something. Usually, there should be one or two slots missing. With some good luck, however, you can avoid it altogether, and with some really bad luck you can lose up to five slots! Like I said, this is a wacky idea, but I find it kinda interesting. And certainly a harsh penalty for dying! And what do you think about the unique monsters being preserved (read my second post) that I mentioned? I really think they should remain dead if you have already killed them once…
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Some anonymous guest
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Post by Some anonymous guest on Sept 21, 2005 16:08:51 GMT -5
Just an idea I got about resurrection : All your "eternal" items lose this flag after dying. So, if you die twice in a row, they are lost. This shouldn't be that bad for tweakable items, but for those who need a scroll of eternity, it could be a pain.
Also, you should keep tab of how many time a player died and put this information in both the character screen and on the dump file...
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Post by Variaz on Sept 21, 2005 18:16:49 GMT -5
Hmmm... one-time use Eternity sounds like another fun idea! I'll think about it. And the death count is also a nice idea. It's not nice to look at your character sheet and see that you died like 300 times! You don't feel like a hero anymore!
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Post by Lipa on Sept 22, 2005 4:20:42 GMT -5
YES! Death count is a *MUST* for later versions!!! And I think it wouldn't be that hard to code it either.
As to the one-time eternality - a fun idea indeed, but I think that the scrolls of eternality should then be a bit less "rare"...
But there's another option for this that I'd suggest instead of losing the effect of eternality 100%. My idea is that after death, some eternal items *MAY* lose their eternality, with a chance of, say, 30% or so. That way, scrolls of eternality could stay as rare as they are now, and death would still prove to be quite painful from time to time, especially when you have many eternal items and the odds of losing the effect are greater.
Anyway, some great ideas we have here so far!!! ;D
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Post by divinefistoka on Sept 22, 2005 5:29:59 GMT -5
im all for lipas latest idea so far, and i think its best option ive heard here, but if your really looking at a hard variant, variaz, then try combining several penalties. (oooh, i just got chills thinking of what 'death' will be like in the future.) Maybe, chance to lose eternality, a death counter, lose percentage of xp, or class kills, or both, and (for some new ones), maybe lose a spell effect or two. All from one death, potentially.
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Post by Lipa on Sept 22, 2005 5:41:42 GMT -5
Yes! Now *THAT* would really be called "death"! And painful enough, too! ;D
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Post by Variaz on Sept 22, 2005 18:24:56 GMT -5
Heh heh... death will be improved in the future, don't worry! You're lucky to bring up the topic a few days before I release 1.7.1, harsh deaths will then be avoided... for now that is! *evil grins*
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Post by Variaz on Sept 24, 2005 12:08:52 GMT -5
Just finished adding the death count! Nice little feature that makes your hero looks not so heroic! And I also changed the Abort command in the file menu, in the Windows version. You can no longer abort the game when you're dying to avoid death penalities!
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Post by Lipa on Sept 24, 2005 13:42:45 GMT -5
GREAT! ;D Man, I can't *wait* for the new release! Variaz, thank you again and again for this fabulous game, your excellent work, and patience with us hapless members!
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