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Post by sekira on Mar 7, 2008 13:33:49 GMT -5
Ok, so I abondoned the nova build already... too much of a specialist. I decided to do a straight wis caster. The two primary class abilities needed for a straight wis caster both come from non-advanced classes, so that makes gettings started really quick. Those abilities are... Wisdom from the Monk class, and Improved Wisdom Casting from the Priest class. Big surprise, right? Why not just Improved Wisdom casting, you ask? well, if I was doing non-elemental spells, I might do that. The elemental spells I will be focusing on will depend on me having a very high wisdom to do damage, not just a high casting strength, so I'm going to split my AP's evenly between wisdom (to get the high damage from my spells, and it helps with casting strength too) and Improved Wisdom Casting (to get the super high casting strength that you just can't get from straight wisdom) The race is celestial of course, because I hate magic returning so much, and because they get a decent wis bonus, and bonus damage from their light spells. Character level 5, Celestial, Class level 2 Monk str 6 int 5 wis 23!!! (all 8 of my stat points have gone here) dex 5 con 7 chr 6 Class Abilities - 5 Wisdom Skills - 20 Elemental The only eq of note is a magic longsword +1 wis and a magic bolt +1 con My plan is 40 AP in Wisdom, 40 AP in Improved Wisdom Casting, and 20 AP in Piercing Spells (to defeat Magic Immune bosses and 100% resist Light monsters) I'm thinking that one of my mid and late game tactics will be to have 1 or 2 "super-buff" spells, that are very close to my dangerous casting limit, and when I am aware of a nearby tough fight, but I'm not in it yet, I can just try that spell over and over until it succeeds (it will only work like 10 to 20% of the time depending on how costly it is) and then when it does succeed, wade in with 100% physical resist, 100% magic resist, and probably a wisdom boost, etc, etc... I'm thinking that by mid game, I'll only have 1 combat spell that is automatic success, because with enough points in Improved wisdom castin, the gap between automatic success and 90% success will be quite big. Thats because improved wisdom casting increases your casting strength without improving your actual wisdom (I believe, I don't know for sure because I've never actually had the ability, just read the help files) and your wisdom affects your automatic success limit, but non-automatic (even if they are high chance) is based on casting strength.
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Post by phlinn on Mar 11, 2008 11:55:44 GMT -5
I reccomend reading formulas.txt in the help folder. Casting strength is ((5 + (IWC/10)) * (wis - 5) * (10 + IWC))/10 if i'm reading the 2 correctly. That last term gets the 10% increase per point of IWC. It's a little odd, but divisions round down in LUA, and I'm working around that in the formula. Let's assume 40 points wis without abilities, then compare at level 20.
20 IWC, 0 IW. Wis :40 CS: 735 NoMishap: 160
0 IWC, 20 IW Wis: 80 CS: 375 NoMishap: 240
10 IWC, 10 IW Wis: 60 CS: 660 NoMishap: 180
As best i can tell, you are better off with everything in Improved Wisdom casting, except for the range where you can't get mishaps.
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Post by Variaz on Mar 11, 2008 12:04:46 GMT -5
Then again, having higher Wisdom helps with the damages, as well as the success rate of Alterations. No point in casting a super expensive Alteration spell if it won't work in the first place, right?
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Post by phlinn on Mar 11, 2008 12:18:32 GMT -5
Doh... she even mentioned that in her original post. *bonk self*. I partially did the calculations just to get a feel for things myself. Although to do it properly, I'd have to put up calcs for spell costs equal to nomishap, guaranteed, and casting str to see how damage played out. Much more complicated than I'm willing to do at the moment. ;p
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Post by Variaz on Mar 11, 2008 12:35:48 GMT -5
Best just enjoy playing your wis-caster than bother calculating all that stuff.
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Post by Gando on Mar 11, 2008 14:40:19 GMT -5
Or be like me and play it really badly I dont think Ive made a spell with a cost over 100 yet...just seems like too much trouble.
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Post by sekira on Mar 11, 2008 14:57:02 GMT -5
phlinn wrote: One thing to keep in mind, the NoMishap level should be in relation to the Casting Strength, not in relation to the Wisdom. (is that correct Variaz?) So the nomishap should be 2940, 1125, and 1980 respectively. As far as the benefits of going 100% IWC, 100% IW, or 50/50... If you look at your own calculations, the 50/50 does 57% more damage than the 100% IWC, but also has about 90% the Casting Strength. looking at the 100% IW, it does 36% more damage than the 50/50, but has only 57% the casting strength... The best of all worlds has to be 50/50. Of course I'd have to do more work to see if 40/60 is better or 60/40, etc, etc. I would guess that aiming for the 10 pt cutoffs for IWC and raising IW at a steady rate to keep it as close to IWC as possible would be the best way to go. I know it won't come into play in the beta (just realized this a couple days ago that my characters won't get anywhere near 50th level, let alone 100th level... DOH, silly me with the build descriptions going up to 100th!), but looking forward to 40th level... At that level 50/50 does 109% of the damage of 100% IWC, and has 93% the Casting Strength, while 100% IW does 52% more damage than 50/50 but has less than 35% the Casting Strength... not to mention the nomishap level is very low comparatively. Its 50/50 all the way for me
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Post by Variaz on Mar 11, 2008 15:02:52 GMT -5
Yes.
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grindorin
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Das Haenchen lebt.
Posts: 151
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Post by grindorin on Mar 11, 2008 15:27:26 GMT -5
For wis-casting, I pretty much always only stick to spells that are certain to succeed. I am not the most cautious player, so I can't generally afford to attempt casting several times to get a good roll. For this reason, if I were to build a wis-caster primary build (a fun idea that I will prolly try soon), I would go for the monk ability to boost wisdom, and likely not take the priest ability for improved wisdom casting at all.
In the above example, with 180 Wisdom, I could be certain to cast an elemental bolt spell with a power of 95 for ((180 - 5) * 95) = 16,625 damages before spellcraft or elemental damage bonusses are added in. With enough elemental skill to get the cost reductions, even more powerful spells could be made.
Now, if ye are willing to take the chance and have the casting strength vs. spell cost roll made, a blend of improved wisdom casting and wisdom will yield the best balance of casting strength and raw power, as noted above.
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Post by sekira on Mar 11, 2008 15:48:51 GMT -5
I'm about 99.99% sure that I've worked out the success rate for spells where the Casting Cost is higher than your Wis... My level 17 wis caster with 35 wisdom and 10 IWC has a casting strength of 360, and his primary attack spell has a casting cost of 99. the success rate is... (360 - (99/2))/360 or 310.5/360 which is 86.25% success rate. For this he gets power 69 bolt I think , which does 69*31(for wisdom)*9(for 40 elemental skill) * 1.25 (for light damage as a celestial) = 24063 damage. Is that a lot of damage for a 0 mana cost spell? Probably, but remember, a mana mage knows with 100% certainty before they even try to cast a spell if they will succeed or not. If they have enough mana they succeed, if not, they don't even waste a turn trying. A wis caster can get into a sticky situation if they realize that they are absolutely positivelly going to die next round if they fail to cast a spell... Maybe they don't want to use up a teleport scroll, or maybe the thought of fleeing from a unique that will heal up fast and having to start all over is just totally annoying... Either way, they might be tempted to use the 90% success spell they have... and 10% of the time, they will die. A mana mage doesn't have to wonder, they just know. And mana mages can get mana boosts AND +int from eq, but a wis caster gets no benefit from eq other than +wis.
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Post by phlinn on Mar 12, 2008 10:40:02 GMT -5
Bah... need to take my own advice apparently. I've read formulas.txt more than once, and somehow i always thought the chance of mishap was related to wisdom the same way guaranteed success was. I always go with wis casting anyways, but as a secondary to whatever class i'm playing. Largely for the ability to get free heals when needed, but also for the extra skill points. Now that skill points aren't affected by it, I have to decide how important magic really is to me. I should do a pure caster at some point I suppose. I would like to try a build built around conjuring elemental fields, but those books are rather deep. BTW, any chance of a priestly enchanter down the road? I'm not sure what would fit for the abilities. Just an idea I had while I was deciding on how i wanted to build an enchanter the other day.
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Post by Variaz on Mar 12, 2008 11:19:04 GMT -5
Priestly Enchanter? Well, I don't really have any ideas for that right now... But if you have ideas, feel free to post!
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Post by Gando on Mar 12, 2008 13:35:50 GMT -5
Because I was testing my skill points script while trying out the Enchanter I ended up putting some points into wisdom just to get the maximum benefit from the stat. I use wis for a free low level spell and mana for the heavy artillery (though my spells still really just suck.)
As far as feilds go...still havent found a feild conjuration book yet... only been as deep as level 30 though....not sure what level they appear on but not before then. And Id have just sold them on the one character I managed to get that deep as they were a melee build.
I sort of view the Soul Guardian as a Wis Based Enchanter. Before the enchanter came along I was using that class to suppliment the crappy items Id find. With a little luck and alot of perseverance I managed to get some decent enchanted gear from some of the better souls.
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kipar
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Post by kipar on Mar 13, 2008 1:33:23 GMT -5
I've played a lot in 0.21 and 0.3 but never found field books - they have depth 45 . About wisdom played spellcaster - I've played such characters in 0.21 but I think their problem is too low damage. 24k is nice until depth 20 or such, but then there are monsters with 300k+ hp (elites and bosses) so they will shoot you before you kill them. Your damage will increase very slow on this level. Maybe in 0.3 it isn't so - now you have more skill points. If not - spellcaster need use something to defend himself. Maybe summoning spells
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Post by Variaz on Mar 13, 2008 7:41:31 GMT -5
Remember than just because you're a wis-caster doesn't mean you can't benefit from High Mage abilities. And of course, you might need stronger spells, which means taking some risks, but sometimes you have to take risks, right?
...well, otherwise, you can always boost your skills/wisdom with items, especially if you got a blue or leveling artifact. Or crafted items.
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