Preview of some 0.5 changes.

[Variaz]

It's been a while since I posted about the upcoming changes of 0.5. To be honest, I haven't coded a lot in the past weeks. I've got a new computer, which is a LOT better than my old one, so with the new hardware, I played some other games, and enjoyed some nice, lag-free visuals.

But I did start making the changes for the upcoming build, so here's a preview:

DAMAGES AND STATS:

Damages from weapons and spells will be lower, in that now, the stats and skills will not increase damages in the same way. Raw damages will be increased only by base stats, using strength for melee, dex for ranged and int, wis or chr for magic/music. The planned formula is quite simple:

Base damages * (stat - 5)

A simple formula, yet one that will provide visible benefits for every points placed in the stat, without ever risking overflowing. Obviously, some other elements such as extra blows will need to be readjusted to this new formula, but this is the planned change.

Furthermore, damages enhancements will be additive. To_d will still provide percentile increase, but will be additive with Sheer Power and Weapon Mastery. Both abilities will instead provide different benefits, rather than being simply multiplicative, so you'll have a choice.

SKILLS AND AC

AC will no longer be a "all or nothing" thing. AC now mitigates damages. How much it mitigates depends on the attacker's skill versus the defender's AC.

If the attacker has 100 skill, and the defender has 50 def, the defender will take 66% damages, because 50 on a total of 150 is 33%, so this means a 33% damages reduction. A similar formula will be used for Magic Defense mitigation.

In other words, skills won't increase the raw damages. Rather, it will help piercing the enemy's defense, and prevent mitigation. This means that skill is not the ability of the character to hit harder. It's the ability to hit at the right place at the right time.

HIT RATE

The "hit rate" is gone. Instead, a combination of dexterity, skill and to_h will be used. The planned formula will be a roll versus the player's "hit" versus the monster's "dodge". The same goes for monsters.

Hit: Dex + Agility + to_h(players only)
Dodge: Dex + Evasion(a new skill for enemy monsters, equivalent of agility)

For magic spells:

Hit: Int/Wis/Chr + Skill(spell school or music)
Dodge: Magic defense(new skill for enemies)

Much better than having 500000 hit rate vs 358289 AC, in my opinion.

A thing to note is that the player has the advantage of to_h, compared to enemies which do not have such benetifs. This makes it easier for the player to hit enemies than it is for them to hit the player, and it's intended that way, so that the lower class enemies be not too hard to hit.

You can also notice that magic has a higher "hit" variable than "dodge" variable. It's intended so that magic will be more accurate than melee/ranged. To make up for this, however, Magic Defense now mitigates magic damages in the same manner than AC does.


Stay tuned for more changes!

[khan]

Sounds promising!

[Gando]

A couple concerns:

1) Sounds like stat items are going to be nerfed to be ineffectual so those should be changed to something else. Rings of (stat) should be revamped so that they have some use in game. Some of the items I created may need to be changed as well.

2)"SKILLS AND AC

AC will no longer be a "all or nothing" thing. AC now mitigates damages. How much it mitigates depends on the attacker's skill versus the defender's AC.

If the attacker has 100 skill, and the defender has 50 def, the defender will take 66% damages, because 50 on a total of 150 is 33%, so this means a 33% damages reduction. A similar formula will be used for Magic Defense mitigation."

So damage reduction = Your AC : Opponent's Skill? (Ratio expressed as a percentage.) Or am I missing something? if so then is the weapon you use important other than for determining which skill to use? How does shield blocking figure into this? Dodging? Weapon Blocking? Needless to say this is a bit confusing.

[Variaz]

1) Sounds like stat items are going to be nerfed to be ineffectual so those should be changed to something else. Rings of (stat) should be revamped so that they have some use in game. Some of the items I created may need to be changed as well.

I wasn't actually planning to nerf them. +20 will still be fine for the next release. In fact, since base stats plays a much greater role in determining base damages, they may be even more important than ever.

So damage reduction = Your AC : Opponent's Skill? (Ratio expressed as a percentage.) Or am I missing something? if so then is the weapon you use important other than for determining which skill to use? How does shield blocking figure into this? Dodging? Weapon Blocking? Needless to say this is a bit confusing.

Blocking formula hasn't been determined yet, that has yet to be added.

For dodging, there is a basic hit test that is based on dex and agility, as mentionned. If you are hit, then AC mitigates damages. How much it mitigates depends on the enemy's attack skill.

If you have 100 AC, and the enemy has 50 attack skill, your damages reduction is 100/(100 + 50) = 100/150 = 66%.

[Gando]

If only base stats are counted for anything then by default you ARE nerfing the stat items which are useless otherwise.

[Variaz]

Well, with the simple damages formula:

Warrior with 30 strength and a 3d8 weapon will do:

75 to 600 damages.

With a +20 strength ring, he will do:

135 to 1080 damages.

Nice little buff I'd say.

[Variaz]

MONSTER STATS AND SKILLS

The way monster stats are determined will be changed, and the level of the monster will play a much bigger role in determining how powerful an enemy is.

In 0.4, if you encounter a level 100 Bandit Warrior, it is still really easy to beat, versus a level 10 Shadow Queen which could give you trouble if you don't have any levelables.

In 0.5, this will change, and the stats, skills and hp of a monster will be greatly determined by it's level. There will be a standard progression for monster levels, meaning that two level 100 monsters, for example, will both present a threat to the player.

Of course, all monsters will still be different, and after the base stats have been determined, percentile modifiers will be applied to each individual stats, and these bonus/penalities will varie from monster to monster. For example, a Kobold Infantry could get something like 75% strength, 125% dex, 100% mind, meaning it only has 3/4 of the strength a normal monster would have for it's level, but has 25% more dex, while Mind follows the standard curve. The skills, hp and AC of the monster will work in a similar way.

The basic level of the monster is determined by the depth level, along with a small bonus for the current dungeon level. For example, a Kobold Infantry, a depth 2 enemy, will always be at least level 2. A more advanced kobold, the Master Kobold, is a depth 30 enemy, meaning it will be at least level 30. However, if you were to meet a level 30 Kobold Infantry, while the Master Kobold would probably still be more powerful due to having higher modifiers and better base damages, the difference wouldn't be as huge as it currently is.

Other than these base modifiers, there is also a stat modifier for the elite status of the monster. Elite monsters receives 25% bonus to all stats and skills, while bosses receives 50%.

Finally, new to this version, the Challenge Rating(CR) will be introduced. This will be used to provide further bonus, and represent the overall power level and threat the monster represents. It will also be used to calculate the experience worth of the monster.

Challenge Rating will vary from 1 to 10, and will be visible through recall informations. The CR itself will give some bonus to all abilities, and of course, but is mostly used to warn the player that the monster may be very difficult to kill, and might have special abilities and powers. Of course, the CR is relative to the monster's level. A level 100 CR1 monster is most likely stronger than a level 5 CR2 enemy, but at equal level, the CR2 will be a lot stronger. Expect the jump from each CR class to have a huge increase in terms of difficulty. A CR2 enemy will pose a much higher threat than a CR1 enemy will!

[sekira]

I have to say, I really really like these concepts. It still has an "epic" feeling compared to other band variants, in that those other variants will not see 1000+ damage per blow like portralis, but the absurd values and overflows before level 40 will be a thing of the past for sure.

Balance will definitely be an issue, but I believe it will work out with some game play and feedback from the game's loyal fan base. We are rooting for you, V, keep up the good work!

[sekira]

I would like to see combat become something more than 1 hit kills or 1 hit deaths... Perhaps when you meet large groups of monsters they could be weak enough that 1 or 2 hits would kill them, but if you meet a single monster of equal level, then I think 3 or more combat rounds would be realistic. This gives you a chance to try different things. Perhaps there could be strategies that focus on killing enemies quick but then you would die quick too, so you would have to do hit and run tactics. I want to see damage over time be useful (like inflict an effect on enemies that means they take x damage per round) and healing effects be something that can be used in the middle of combat. Just some thoughts.

[Gando]

Ok so stats aren't negated off an item just added after the base. It sounded like you were only taking the points put in to a stat and not including items.

[Gando]

Another question. What part does Weapon Skill play in damages?

[zekk]

This is looking nice so far! I was worried that this would just die off since there haven't been many posts for, well, a few months. It's nice to see that this is still up and running.

[Variaz]

Jun 21, 2010 22:52:40 GMT -5 Gando said:

Another question. What part does Weapon Skill play in damages?

Weapon skill doesn't directly increase damages. Instead, the higher your skill, the less damages are going to be mitigated by the monster's AC, so you're going to do higher damages than if you had low skill. And of course, skill directly affects your ability to hit the monster(along with dex and to_h bonus), so if you hit more often, you'll do more damages, obviously.

[zekk]

So, you don't need a really high weapon skill to do good damage... that's interesting. It won't exactly be necessary to have a high weapon skill for melee characters now.

Also, with this new system, I think weapon finesse and intelligent fighting might be a lot more useful due the importance basic stats have now.

[Variaz]

So, you don't need a really high weapon skill to do good damage... that's interesting. It won't exactly be necessary to have a high weapon skill for melee characters now.

Yes and no.

If it's too low and you attack a monster with high AC, a lot of damages will be mitigated.

Also, skill also directly affects your chance to hit your opponents, it's not just dexterity anymore. This is good, because now melee has only two major stats to focus on, like all other types of characters. They were the only types that had three stats to focus on.