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Post by Variaz on Jan 8, 2009 15:43:49 GMT -5
This poll follows the monster vs normal races poll, and it seems that monsters won by over 60%.
Knowing that, I am wondering, would peoples like to allow monsters to use normal classes? Of course, they will still have their own "Monster" class by default, but you'll be able to multiclass to the regular classes.
I originally didn't plan on allowing this, but seeing Monster popularity, I am starting to wonder if I should allow monsters to use normal classes. Of course, this might bring some balance issues, and also the question of what will become of regular races, but I just want opinions on the possibility of allowing Monsters to play regular classes, as well as their own.
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grindorin
Champion
Das Haenchen lebt.
Posts: 151
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Post by grindorin on Jan 8, 2009 16:05:27 GMT -5
I had thought that the trade-off for higher stats (and automatic stats progression) was the restriction from normal classes. Greater raw power, but reduced versatility. INT-based magics were opened up to the Monster class, partially removing the versatility restriction (I think they were anyways, but I could be recalling wrong). If they are allowed access to the normal classes as well, the only real benefits left to non-monster races are racial skill bonuses and WIS-casting.
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Post by Variaz on Jan 8, 2009 17:04:01 GMT -5
I agree, this is what I meant by balance issues, and what becomes of normal races. However, I'd hate to take time to make lots of new classes if players are just going to play monsters.
And why wouldn't they? There are currently many reasons to play Monsters over normal races:
- Easier in the beginning. - Just about any monsters can work. Some are harder, some are easier, but all are playable. No matter what you choose, you can't go wrong, while normal races can mess up more easily if they pick a wrong ability combo. This also means that when you just want to play a quick game, Monster is good because you don't have to think up complex comboes. - Actually, monsters do, in fact, have quite a good versatility, just in a different way. It's more a matter of choosing the right specie than the right abilities, but with about 300 playable monsters(and more to come!), surely you can say the Monster race has versatility(especially since later monsters starts getting special abilities and stuff). A single monster can also be developped in many different ways. - Humanoid monsters with ranged attacks are the best ranged characters at the moment. (and the only truly viable bow/crossbow ones)
Except the ranged attacks problem, the other ones cannot be solved just by adding new classes, but it would be sad to have all these nice abilities become forgotten.
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Post by hairybolox on Jan 9, 2009 4:50:13 GMT -5
I think it would make it quite interesting the say the least if they could, BUT i see in some instances it would break the game :-( Especially with the Paragon options !
Maybe it could be restricted to just the "humanoid" races... ? I for one would love to play a Lich toxic Element Lord or a Shadow Queen Shadow Stalker..... :-)
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Post by Gando on Jan 9, 2009 7:10:55 GMT -5
I think its really a no go idea. I mean playing the Monster race should be a departure from the normal method of playing. Even balance issues aside (this is a solo game after all) I think the flavor of playing a monster should be kept apart from the flavor of playing a normal race/class combination.
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Post by Variaz on Jan 9, 2009 7:35:01 GMT -5
Humanoid monsters are just as good as "essence" monsters. Especially the combo you just used as an example: "Shadow Queen Shadow Stalker". She already has a special dodging ability, so combine that with Displacement and you're going to be very, very hard to hit.
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Post by hairybolox on Jan 9, 2009 11:50:48 GMT -5
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Post by junyortrakr on Jan 9, 2009 19:29:36 GMT -5
I also think that playing 'monsters' and other characters should be different.
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Post by Gando on Jan 10, 2009 12:05:44 GMT -5
There is a great difference in play style between even playing humanoid monsters and player races/classes. Id like to keep that distinction. Also I think player races and classes should be improved maybe a little but viewed separately from Monsters. After all the monster race thing is a bonus thrown in to amuse long time players but the player races/classes are truly the heroes of the piece. Well thats my opinion. Yes monsters do get normal style spell casting and wow thats really cool but it doesnt mean I choose monsters over normal classes when I play...quite the contrary. I prefer the race/class combinations since my goal isnt to be the baddest player there is but to find variety and enjoyment in that variety. I will play monsters...but they do not define the Portralis experience for me. Nor do I want to see them become the dominant playable "race" in Port because they get to play as classes as well. thats my 2.25cents.
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Post by espeorb on Jan 10, 2009 19:15:17 GMT -5
I say they should be able to have normal classes (so I put yes). HOWEVER, if they do, I would only want it to happen if the player races were given something else that makes them unique, a universal advantage sort of like classes are for them now (not saying they're better than monsters ATM, though). I gander Variaz, being the creative programmer he is, will think of something.
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Post by hairybolox on Jan 11, 2009 7:42:10 GMT -5
I'm playing devils advocate here Gando, but do you just play a Human with regular classes ? If not & I have read all you articles so know yo don't ;-) then your playing monsters - bloody obvious eh... ha ha I too do not want to play an uber ass kicking invincable character - that would bore me, but I really do want to try different monster types using the current class system. Maybe there could be a way to add them in as a playable race without all the huge stat boosts they get per level - using just they're basic stats as a starting place & getting the reg 2 stat, 5 skill & 1 class pts per level...... ?? Personally that would work for me Though I must admit it would be great if there was a way for them to evolve into other variants once they reach the required player level - maybe this could be tested using the current races first.....?
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Post by Gando on Jan 11, 2009 10:19:06 GMT -5
Dear Devil's Advocate...you presume too much. While I am flattered that you have read ALL of my thread comments, I have to say you haven't seemed to extract the essential theme. I play Portralis ALOT.
Yes I have played humans. (And Kobolds and Gnomes too) No I do not post about them because frankly they are quite average. Nothing to write about. I have to say human crafters are ok but I prefer Dwarf Crafters. Human Warriors not so much. Human Paladins are pretty good but Celestials are better. And So on... While I do not write about every combination possible in the game I have indeed over the year or so I've been playing Port (through the various different versions) played them all. Now I also play monsters and this is well documented as I have been quite active in the threads dealing with them.
Now onto the relevant comments you made. I still say I do not want Reeses peanut butter cups...I want chocolate and peanut butter in different bites. (sugar free please). On the other hand additions are something one can avoid if one wants to. Subtracting or denying something means it won't be available to be ignored so I guess my objection is somewhat unnecessary.
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Post by Variaz on Jan 11, 2009 13:07:52 GMT -5
Maybe what we need is to give more bonus to normal races, and perhaps something beyond just stats/skills bonus. Each races could have some sort of unique ability that would make them truly unique to play.
For example, in-game zulgors have the power to twist reality. Perhaps Zulgors could get the power to do so. Celestials could have some sort of power that can repulse or even destroy evil beings like undeads or demons, Demons could awaken their evil nature and gain more power, Kobolds could have innate poison-piercing that would make them the TRUE masters of Poison, etc... Just some ideas, but basically, give all races some unique trait.
As for Humans bonus, it's true that they aren't exactly the best, +1 skill/3 levels is a bit obsolete in the current version. I am planning to give them perhaps a bonus to Firearms, since they are good with both crafting and alchemy, so it would make sense that they are good at making, and therefore using, guns.
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Post by hairybolox on Jan 11, 2009 16:14:31 GMT -5
Gando please don't think i was being sarcastic - i truly wasn't ! I do read your comments which whilst I don't always agree with them I do think you always make a good/valid point...... I also play this game a lot - when i tell you i have managed to nurse a char to level 63 in one of the earlier versions then you'll know how much sleep i've missed..... ;-) I too have pretty much played most of the variants & started playing "Rogue" back in 87 when I first became a comptuer engineer, jeez i've just stopped & thought about it - 1/2 my life on this........... All I meant was that the chance to play a few new race/class combinations would be fun & that is the ONLY thing i prefer about other variants - the variety of player chars, but they don't have the depth Port does.... Adding the monsters is great fun, but it still doesn't allow us to play a Lich Paladin or a Minotaur Defender if we wanted to.... Variaz I think that if you boost the current classes then maybe it would be better if it was with something that race gets even if at a later evolution - in the examples you gave how would it affect a Kobold who you wanted to be a dark element lord.... Would it be able to get peircing abilities in 2 elements or could you only be a poison lord ?
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Post by hairybolox on Jan 15, 2009 6:19:42 GMT -5
Since this thread seems to have died without a final yay/nay - are you going to put it in the next build Variaz ?
Or won't it be implemented at all ? :-(
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