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Post by sekira on Mar 24, 2008 12:21:52 GMT -5
I think 1 tweak point per 10 pts in crafting would be good. If you went that route, then I don't think it would be necessary to lower the dwarven crafting bonus, but I still say you need to make it so no item can ever have a crafting bonus on it.
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Post by Variaz on Mar 24, 2008 12:25:56 GMT -5
You're probably right about that. (although some artifacts MIGHT have them, but artifacts are artifacts . And I'll probably disable Alchemy/Crafting in the tweaking of blues/greens/artifacts as well, so you'll get just what the artifacts offers at the start and nothing more.)
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Post by sekira on Mar 24, 2008 12:29:48 GMT -5
Thats funny, as soon as I posted that last reply, I was thinking "Well, it would be cool if artifacts could have a crafting bonus, but not from leveling." heh, funny we both thought the same thing about that... Here is a suggestion:
The Philosopher's Stone Worn as lightsource Abilities: Lightsource radius 5 +20 crafting +20 alchemy
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Post by Variaz on Mar 24, 2008 12:40:51 GMT -5
I like this one.
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Post by Frumple on Mar 24, 2008 19:30:38 GMT -5
Aaand that's where you get midas touch from, ayup-yup. (As an activatable spell on the stone, that is.) Or a stone-to-gold spell -- like digging, but gives cash. (Cooldown is a must!) Being able to gold-touch monsters would be awesome too... wouldn't that even be scriptable?
*sidetrack* Merchant/Midas class... hmm...
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Post by sekira on Mar 27, 2008 9:18:38 GMT -5
Ok, so this may sound like I'm wishy washy, but I have another suggestion for crafting.
I showed just how crazy crafting could get at high levels, and I still think that it needs to be toned down at high levels, 1 tweak point per 5 crafting skill is just too much at high levels.
I do think that 1 tweak point per 10 crafting skill is too low at low levels, especially if you are playing a race with no crafting skill bonus.
I propose that you get 1 tweak point per 5 crafting skill up until crafting 100, then you get 1 tweak per 10 crafting skill.
Another reason why this is more balanced is because above 100 skill, you get much better stuff to craft, so you are already getting a benefit from high skill because of the base eq that you are crafting.
I think it would be good to give 1% per skill bonus to base ac, just like the bonus to base damage dice.
One more thing I suggest (that I resisted before) is reducing the human and dwarven racial crafting bonuses by half (dwarven would be 25%, human 12.5%) because every point of skill in crafting is like 2 points of skill in another skill, at least with the 1 tweak per 5 skill breakdown, and I already stated there are other benefits from having the skill up high enough for the 1 tweak per 10 skill breakdown.
Another reason to reduce the racial skill bonuses is because as it stands now a dwarf warrior is better at crafting than an elven enchanter... that doesn't seem right, enchanters are masters of crafting and alchemy, dedicating their lives to those practices. There shouldn't be a racial bonus in the game that is higher than the enchanter class bonus, it is just breaks the theme too much.
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Post by Variaz on Mar 27, 2008 12:25:39 GMT -5
Well, 1 per 5 at skill 100 does give you 20 tweak points which is already a lot. 1 per 10 skill points might seem low, but with the quality of crafted items, it makes up for it. At skill level 100, you still get 10 points to spend wherever you want, which means about 120 points I think if you fill all slots. Also, I do not like the approach of having a skill do things one way until level 100, then starts working another way all of a sudden. I like consistency... Errr...well, I agree that 50% is too much, but not for that reason. In Portralis, Elves are mostly priests and archers, so Dwarves being better is logical, since they live not only in mountains, but also in a kingdom where warriors traditionally wears heavy armor. Makes sense that the Ivhalian peoples are better at crafting than the Nimbrayans. It's like saying the game is broken because a zulgor Apprentice is stronger than a Human Warrior. Yes, warriors may be masters of combat, but a zulgor is a being twisted by the forces of chaos, and could be described as an embodiement of chaos, which, I think, far surpasses any class titles you could ever get!
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Post by Gando on Mar 27, 2008 12:50:30 GMT -5
I think the way portralis is right now is fine for the most part...I say iron out the many wrinkles before adding new ones.
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Post by sekira on Mar 27, 2008 13:11:59 GMT -5
ok, I had a post about another fix to crafting... but then I read Variaz and Gando's posts and I think maybe I am making a few too many suggestions. So I deleted my post.
I like what Gando said in the previous post. Good advice for someone like me who is always trying to fix what ain't broken.
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Post by Variaz on Mar 29, 2008 14:53:07 GMT -5
In the upcoming upload: - Tweak points will now be 1 per 10 points. - Base AC bonus is now +1% per points instead of +2%. - Weapons dices and sides are capped to their base values * 3. This means that base damages increases caps at Crafting skill 300. It's still very powerful, but it's more balanced in comparison with high rank purples/blues. - Dwarves and Gnomes have had their 50% bonus reduced to 25%. - The help file no longer suggests that too much Crafting is useless.
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Post by Gando on Mar 29, 2008 22:45:48 GMT -5
Some of these changes make sense but some seem a bit of an overnerf to my mind. Why are you lowering the bonuses for races? I really dont see the point. The only reason I see for playing a Gnome at all is the bonus to Alchemy. Id recommend adding the bonus elsewhere if you are taking something away.
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Post by Variaz on Mar 29, 2008 23:59:44 GMT -5
Perhaps... I'll leave them at 50% for the moment.
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Post by phlinn on Mar 31, 2008 13:00:34 GMT -5
I still think crafting bonuses to AC and Damage should be set by Skill - item depth. It just doesn't seem right to me that you go from not being good enough to make something (skill < depth) to being able to make a superb example of it. If it's scripted, I might change it on my end after the next download at least.
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Post by Gando on Mar 31, 2008 13:30:00 GMT -5
I think that sort of Tinkering needs to be tested so perhaps scripting it would be best so if a person likes it one way they can make it that way and if they like it another then they can make it that way too.
Personally I think Phlinn has a point regarding the skill vs item depth but Im not sure I want the formula suggested. Also I think the fact that a crafter is better at making items in general SHOULD impact the quality of new materials to some degree. For instance a master carpenter would not suddenly make apprentice level work when faced with a new type of wood. The experience they bring to the "table" would have a strong impact on how well they shaped and carved that wood. Now maybe if they were a master carpenter who is asked to ride a horse theyd never seen before...
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Post by phlinn on Mar 31, 2008 17:33:04 GMT -5
But that's inherent in the base stats, hence the lower depth and higher base benefits to begin with, plus you can still magically tweak it.
For the carpenter example, i doubt most of them start with oak. A soft wood seems far more likely, and I suspect oak is a lot trickier to work with.
This is all an abstraction to begin with, so there are limits to how realistic you really want to get.
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