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Post by junyortrakr on Sept 6, 2006 10:12:04 GMT -5
I had a few questions on throwing, in case someone has more experience than I do.
1. Are there any advantages to boomerangs? From my limited experience, they're just like any other weapon you can throw, and they're hard to find too boot. If they returned after the throw, I can see why one would be useful, but otherwise, they seem pretty worthless.
2. How likely is it that the item you throw will be destroyed? I've occasionally had something go away, but I don't know whether it's like regular weapon damage, like missiles, or something different. I'm excluding potions, of course: I know those go away.
3. Is there any way to get a stack of anything to throw other than something like a base level knife or such? Since the throw item won't return, it seems very difficult to get enough of any particular item to make it effective to carry them.
3b. If there isn't anything that effectively stacks to throw (other than potions), would it be possible to create a few classes of throwing weapons? They would be like regular missiles except that they could only be thrown not launched. I would think they could be equipped in the throwing slot but not wielded like a regular weapon. They wouldn't give any character bonuses, either, only combat ones.
Anyway, those are some thoughts.
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Post by Variaz on Sept 6, 2006 12:47:34 GMT -5
Well, boomerangs are a type of throwing weapons, and their main advantage is that they do not need ammos and always return to you. However, you have to equip the boomerangs for them to return I believe... If you 'v' throw them, I don't think they do... Also, for boomerangs, they probably deserve a specialized Boomerang skill....
For the items thrown being destroyed... I don't know the exact percentage of chance of breaking. Never really checked the item breakerage chance...
Right now, weapons don't really stack unless you buy masses of them. Though creating throwable weapons(like darts or shurikens) could be a good idea, and make the throwing skill more useful than it is right now!
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Post by junyortrakr on Sept 8, 2006 11:26:06 GMT -5
Oh, I didn't think of trying to equip a boomerang. That could make one useful, so I'll have to try it.
I was thinking that throwing a generic weapon could possibly be less effective than it currently is. I would think that most weapons other than daggers or such should do limited damage like missiles do. Of course, it would be nice to have the thrown weapons you were mentioning. That way, you could potentially have enough in a stack to do some good.
*thinks* I believe some permutation of the Angband variant Sangband had a variety of thrown weapons if you wanted something to look at.
Anyway, those are just some thoughts.
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Post by Variaz on Sept 8, 2006 12:53:49 GMT -5
Actually, the throwing's skill advantage over shooting is the ability to throw those big weapons for big damages! They shouldn't do less damages, in my opinion. If you ever find a 12d10 King Sword, and want to risk losing it by throwing it, then the damages HAVE to be high, otherwise it's not worth it at all...
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Post by junyortrakr on Sept 9, 2006 10:30:58 GMT -5
Hmm. That is a good point. Of course, with all the elites and bosses, there will be a lot of various weapons to throw, most of which are worthless for anything other than cash. I suppose I'm doing the dreaded logic chopping which results in things like thinking it is difficult to throw a weapon not designed for such. If there was a variety of scaled throwing weapons, throwing those wouldn't be as important.
Anyway, that's what I'm thinking now, but I certainly don't mind the fact that you can throw just about anything. I was more thinking in theoretical terms.
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Post by Lipa on Sept 10, 2006 14:37:58 GMT -5
Just a few more words about throwing:
I never really thought about throwing *weapons*. Instead, I always imagined that this action should be performed with some special "bomb-like" potions or something...
An example: imagine to have a potion of explosion, or a potion of acid, or a potion of black breath, etc... Basically all sorts of nasty stuff in little glass flasks. And when you see an enemy, you throw this "bomb" at it! The throwing skill could increase character’s throwing range, and (of course) the power of the effect...
Anyway, this is what I always thought that could be done with throwing.
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Post by Variaz on Sept 10, 2006 15:01:51 GMT -5
Actually, the throwing skill improves the damages done by Molotov potions, Potions of Detonations and the like! So if you have a few points in alchemy, mix a flask of oil and a filthy rag to create a Molotov potions, then both Alchemy and Throwing increases it's damages!
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Post by junyortrakr on Sept 11, 2006 20:33:16 GMT -5
I was wondering about things like Molotov thingytails. It is easy to find the flasks of oil, but where does one find a supply of rags? I mean, you can loot one off the floor every once in a while, but not often enough to make any useful quanitity.
I was wondering if it would be possible to have a store in Jindar or some other major city that would sell at least basic crafting and alchemy components. I have difficulty justifying spending points on the skills when my ability to find components is so unreliable.
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Post by Variaz on Sept 11, 2006 20:44:51 GMT -5
Err... not sure you noticed, but the general store sells like packs of 99 Filthy Rags! They're actually EASIER to get than the flasks, because they come in greater quantity! If you never saw them, I guess you were just unlucky... but they're definitly sold in the general store! But I agree with the components store, and there's surely some place in Jindar for that!
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Post by junyortrakr on Sept 14, 2006 10:54:12 GMT -5
Sorry about that. I just never looked at the store contents closely enough to notice they were there.
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Post by junyortrakr on Sept 14, 2006 10:58:27 GMT -5
Oh, I could probably have included thing in the last post. I have noticed that sometimes there are some nice boomerangs in the black market in the town. I haven't had a character with enough throwing skill to use one---yet. I should get one worked up pretty soon though.
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Post by Variaz on Sept 14, 2006 12:35:10 GMT -5
Let us know how he/she turns out! Perhaps a post in Tips/Strategy or Characters Builds! I'm curious to see whether or not the skill is really viable!
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Post by junyortrakr on Oct 8, 2006 13:30:14 GMT -5
Would someone check this for me? I was wondering if I'm undestanding the throwing damage calculations correctly. From the formula section:
MELEE WEAPONS/MONK BLOWS/THROWN WEAPONS:
The damages for melee characters uses the following steps: 1. Damages = base weapon damages roll 2. (Base roll) * (Weapon Skill + 1) 3. +to_d% to damages 4. +Strength% to damages
So let's assume the character uses a Long Sword(2d5), with a swords skill of 50 and a strength of 30. He/she obtains a 10 on the weapon roll. With a skill of 50, damages becomes (10 * 50+1) = 510. Then, with Strength giving +5 to_d per points, this character gets +150 to_d. So that gives the character +150% to damages, so the 500 damages becomes 1275. Then, with a strength of 30, the character receives an extra 30% damages, raising the damages to 1658. For martial arts, the base damages is 1d3, and both the dice number and sides increase by 1 for every 15 points in Martial Arts skill. So with 0 - 15 Martial Arts, the base roll is 1d3. At 15, it becomes 2d4. At 30, it becomes 3d6 and so on.
Throwing uses the same formula, and the throwing skill. However, for boomerangs, only the boomerang's to_d is used in damages calculation, not the total to_d.
So, for an example, I'll throw the very same long sword with the same character stats, skill level, and damage roll. Therefore: 1. 10 2. 10*(50+1)=510 3. 510+(0*(30*5))= 510 4. 510+ (510*1.3)= 663 5. since at level 50, 50%damage bonus 663*1.5=995
If this is correct, it is only about 60% of the regular weapon damage and much less than any bow or crossbow damage anyone will be doing with even poor equipment. (It's only about half of the example damage, an that is with both a pathetic bow and a pathetic arrow.) Unless more of the normal strength damage multiplier is included, I cannot see any reason to ever use the skill even with something as strong as a golem, one of my favorites. Is there something I'm missing in my analysis?
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Post by Variaz on Oct 8, 2006 17:11:19 GMT -5
You just made me realize how messy the code is! If you equip the boomerang, only the boomerang's to_d is used, but if you "v" throw it, all the to_d is used...but it won't return to you... If you "v" throw anything, though, all the to_d will be used, so throwing a 12d10 King's Sword is very powerful! ...the boomerang code really needs to be revised though. It could be as simple as changing it so that it uses the whole to_d, and that "v" throwing a boomerang will make it return. In fact, should boomerangs be equipped at all?
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Post by junyortrakr on Oct 9, 2006 8:01:08 GMT -5
Oh, so that's what that note was about. If that's the case,there may be some hope for throwing, even Molotovs, too.
I don't care if the boomerang needs to be wielded or not. I do think it should do the same damage and return however it is launched, though. If it doesn't do the same damage when used as a returning weapon, I can't think of any reason to ever use one.
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